We’re pleased to welcome back erstwhile Sunday School Bonanza host, Jared Gillins, as he sits with Geoff to talk all things Latter-day Saint News. Jared and his brother recently started the Jean-Luc Picodcast, a podcast examining personal stories of how fans of Star Trek: The Next Generation have been impacted by the show, and of course, by Jean-Luc Picard.

It appears the Church has commissioned a survey to gauge Latter-day Saints’ feelings on lowering the age for “youth” interviews all the way down to eight years old. Naturally, this ruffles some feathers. It’s worth noting that the survey asks who should conduct such hypothetical interviews, including the primary president, but it does not contain an option for a respondent to state simply that he or she disapproves of the entire premise. Bad survey writing there. And strange timing, too. In the wake of Sam Young, is the Church exploring the issue more, or is this just clunky timing and Public Affairs is asleep at the wheel (again)?

President M. Russell Ballard spoke recently at mission president training (new mission presidents enter the field in the beginning of July) where he denounced the practice of hasty or premature baptism invitations. This is something of a watershed moment, as too often we’ve leaned on intensity, urgency, boldness, etc., with missionaries without encouraging them to be patient with the spirit. When we bring people into the Church before they are ready, we can risk hurting them and the ward into which they are baptized.

Keeping with the missionary theme, missionaries serving in 18 countries will now be asked to pay 25% more per month, up to $500 from $400. But that amount still tracks under what the inflated “cost” of a mission is, so… count your blessings?

Hey! The guests have been announced for President Russell M. Nelsons’ 95th birthday soiree! That’s all well and good, but it causes us to pause and ask a question: Why are we throwing this huge parties for the Prophets and when did they start? How do events like these help us with our embattled narrative that we don’t worship Joseph Smith, for example, when we elevate the president of the Church to mythic status?

Brigham Young University’s Honor Code office is in the news again, but this time because it is updating some of its policies and guidelines, notable that the, erm, “accused” are now innocent until proven guilty. Yes, prior to this change, if a roommate ratted you out, the Honor Code office just took that at face value and brought down the boom. Now it will actually take time to do some due diligence. Go figure! Who knew we could live in a world with such basic rights?!

Normally excellent tech site The Verge writes a weak and biased piece about the website that helps Mormons resign their membership in the Church. The general content is interesting, but the author writes as if it is axiom that one would want to leave.

O, look! More kids suffering in harsh conditions by participating in trek! And yet, here we are, pretending this is a thing that will teach our kids important values. It’s time to retire trek.

Lastly, a Utah temple worker is released after adopting dreadlocks, only to publish his story on Facebook and see the Payson Temple do a quick 180. If dreadlocks are OK, then it is time for beards.

Transcript

Geoff:
[0:00] Batten down the hatches put up the sail stick with boat metaphors this week in Mormons is here everyone I’m your host Jeff openshaw nice to be with you once more yes still this weekend Mormons almost a year since president Nelson tried to tell us to stop being Mormon,
here I remain apostate ready to go.

Jared:
[0:17] And here I am in joining an apostasy my name is Jared gillen’s you may remember me from such podcasts as well I accidentally couple episodes of Sunday school Bonanza back in the day,
also,
if you’re keeping up with the the newest and coolest podcast you might recognize me from the Jean Luke Picard cast presented by the brothers galen’s is only 3 episodes of that extent
as of the recording of this so maybe you don’t maybe you haven’t heard it but you should.

Geoff:
[0:46] Okay explain this podcast who is Jean-Luc Picard pick podcast.

Jared:
[0:51] The quad cast yes.

Geoff:
[0:53] The quad cast at the phone where that’s a great portmanteau.

Jared:
[0:56] Thank you my Twilight my my younger brother the shark shark killings came up with that he and I are just really
A to Z Astic Star Trek fans I don’t know if we’re the biggest or the nerdiest but we we really like the show and when we found out that there was going to be a new card based truck show.

Geoff:
[1:13] Right on CBS.

Jared:
[1:14] CBS all access we were really excited and we decided to channel that excitement into a podcast so we aren’t the whole premise of the podcast do you know,
Star Trek the Next Generation,
We Believe shaped us in a way you know whether it’s because of the male bonding we experience with our brothers and our father or you know just the Lessons Learned From The Great avuncular figure of,
down at the card until we see the first couple episodes are just checking I talking about why this is important to us why we lost the card and then the whole idea is that people will come on torso and talked with us about
why,
it’s how it shaped them away why why is the cartoon Star Trek next Generation is important in their life than getting them to talk and no doubt about episodes of next-generation that they love.

Geoff:
[2:08] Nothing wrong with that I like the woman Tasha Yar dies.

Jared:
[2:11] Sexy really good episode.

Geoff:
[2:13] Okay I know I was just thinking about yes I recall that vaguely from my youth my sister watch Star Trek the Next Generation more avidly than I did but I think I kind of Osmosis stood everything pretty well you know growing up.

Jared:
[2:24] That’s good verb.

Geoff:
[2:26] Osmos desai’s didn’t she actually get killed off cuz she wasn’t she wanted off of the show she wanted to be a movie star.

Jared:
[2:34] I can’t remember that there’s a whole back story you’d have to ask Denise Crosby herself why she left the show notably she came back for a few episodes best of all in the Renaud episode yesterday’s Enterprise
that’s one of the fan favorites we haven’t talked about that one yet.

Geoff:
[2:55] She’s also in what in in 1998 went to movies about asteroids came out Armageddon and Deep Impact she was in the more thoughtful one of Deep Impact which was laws were doing random trivia filmed partially in our neck of the woods.

Jared:
[3:10] Our neck of the woods.

Geoff:
[3:11] In the DC area there’s a part when they’re so I don’t remember where they’re supposed to be but they’re on like some kind of a highway trying to flee to the mountains or something like that,
they actually film that part and she’s in those scenes with her family they filmed that part on the then just finished Fairfax County Parkway which had not yet open to the public.

Jared:
[3:29] At school and I did not know that trivia.

Geoff:
[3:33] Trivia all around.

Jared:
[3:34] And I agree with you by the way that that is the more thoughtful of the two asteroid base movies.

Geoff:
[3:40] Armageddon is garbage,
if you want to talk about some of the worst time of years ago 10 years ago I guess it was I was in Paris and of course when you’re in Paris you should take time to go to Disneyland Paris why would you not when you’re in Paris.

Jared:
[3:53] Wrecked.

Geoff:
[3:53] And and so I mean people though I don’t mean I grew up 15 minutes from Disneyland so yeah I care a little bit more,
they have this Armageddon attraction at the Hollywood Studios park next door and it’s the worst waste of time I’ve ever been on in my life you go in this room and it’s supposed to be like from that movie when the asteroid hits the Mir Space Station,
something it’s so I’m still bitter about it I could have been something else with a half an hour of my love my time.

Jared:
[4:21] What one more chance is if you if you allow it as I just think it’s interesting that you know we get the phenomenon right where two Studios try to one-up each other you know Siri.

Geoff:
[4:32] It happened a lot in the 90s especially.

Jared:
[4:33] Yeah.

Geoff:
[4:34] Volcano and Dante’s Peak.

Jared:
[4:36] Well that’s what I was going to say it’s interesting to me because usually there’s one that’s generally considered better than the other it’s so fruit example like Deep Impact is better than,
are we get an end I would say that A Bug’s Life is better than answer they must do what a Greek when you tried to weigh Dante’s Peak against volcano and those things are both terrible for buried.

Geoff:
[4:54] They’re both have Brewery yeah I mean.

Jared:
[4:56] What does no better Volcano movie like they’re both just run.

Geoff:
[5:01] What about Joe Versus the book.

Jared:
[5:02] Oh yeah well that’s obvious an exception I mean it’s not.

Geoff:
[5:06] How did volcano volcano has the great looks like about this what happens in volcano though you’ve got the jerky MTA worker who jumps into the lava to save a guy,
from the from the subway car also has a lot of fun as an angeleno because they played so much on the Venn very new Los Angeles Subway,
and then you have the racist cop who learns a lesson and not being racist at the end when he and the African American guy help to stop the lava.

Jared:
[5:34] Right and then they all come out and there everybody’s covered in Ash and we realized that we all look the same.

Geoff:
[5:40] Yes it’s like the temple you don’t know where anybody does for a living.

Jared:
[5:43] Segway into the relevant topic of this podcast.

Geoff:
[5:47] Thank you I was asking to deviate from it again but then.
Cuz I just want to ask you one thing is as a Trekkie is a very big okay so you like Star Trek the Next Generation is the formative one will this show in any way or does your interest also cross over into Deep Space Nine Voyager.

Jared:
[6:05] Of course I mean I need to track fan I would say most most check fans like,
you know the breath of the shows but they also have their very strong opinions about which show is better than the others are ranking for sure I will enjoy all forms of track I like the new JJ Abrams trilogy.

Geoff:
[6:23] And that was my next question was going to ask you.

Jared:
[6:24] Yeah I think so.

Geoff:
[6:26] De Brazil visa if they were heresy.

Jared:
[6:27] I watched those with a bummer I thought they were fun night I really enjoyed going to the theater that Chris Pine most of all what’s his name Urban what a fantastic McCoy he was perfect,
I was calling Keith Urban. Sickness not right.

Geoff:
[6:45] Michigan Keith Urban the start.

Jared:
[6:47] I wonder who he would play,
but yeah so I enjoyed original series they know that was with my dad but I originally came on Star Trek and of course I’d for me next generation is
the top series but I would say Deep Space Nine is very close behind that I enjoyed much of Voyager some of enterprise,
I’ve been liking Discovery we won’t get into that there’s a whole you know we could just make this whole,
call episode scussion about my thoughts about Discovery but I like watching the show I think it’s good and I’m very excited about the card because he’s my Captain.

Geoff:
[7:24] Are you worried last thing about this,
what’s up because because the world of streaming and now every network is creating their streaming platform CBS all access is a little bit older now then the Mason wants something,
but the one thing that seems to happen with everyone who goes streaming is they decide to add altify everything so to speak,
and I have I have not watched the newer Star Trek one on there but my understanding is it’s got some more risque material than one would find typically what were used to it Star Trek.

Jared:
[7:59] Yeah Bruce came I even be a strong word for I mean there’s definitely stronger language feel it does feel less like a family show and that’s it,
complaint I’ve heard kind of across-the-board not just for me and not just for Mormons are LDS people has been you know for like for me it was a show I could sit and watch with my dad when I was a young kid I was seven,
Next Generation came out so sorry it does kind of bother me do you know that I would think you know if I had like a seven-year-old son but I want them to hear,
you know the Admiral cursing at the captain or whatever so.

Geoff:
[8:35] So my question is we’re excited for the Picard show are you worried they’re going to do the same thing to Picard and will that be an issue for you so it’s one thing to take new characters of the new show but now you’re dealing with something that’s already Canon,
and what if they revise it in that way will that be a turn.

Jared:
[8:51] Right we’ll see it to be honest it really what I’m more concerned about is is the word you just uttered is is the cannon is I’m less concerned about adult language in a CVS you know,
new Buddha.
Show Star Trek I’m less concerned about those are the things that I am about continuity like any good check fan I want them to respect the source material I want them to respect the timeline I want them to respect the characters that have already been to the.

Geoff:
[9:19] Yeah yeah.

Jared:
[9:19] Not so as long as as long as we get to Captain Picard has I want him to be in my authoritative Trek fan mine said you know obviously that’s as it should be I don’t care if it pops if you you know,
four letter words.

Geoff:
[9:35] It’ll be it’ll be fine. Patrick Stewart doing it cuz he already did the same thing with the X-Men series doing Professor X and then in Logan he’s cussing up a storm.
You know anything ghost okay well don’t leave me like this Jeremih said show designated Survivor it was terrible.

Jared:
[9:51] No I I didn’t watch it cuz I heard it was terrible.

Geoff:
[9:53] Yeah I was a great promise and they totally ruined so it got canceled then Netflix picked it up and the same thing on Netflix in it just like pick it up as it was like a Networks,
type show so apparently it’s back with a season 3 which is just like suddenly full of language and sacks and all the stuff that did not exist before and I brought all these complaints on my Common Sense Media of parent to watch the first two seasons
which was just a tv-14 network television program with no idea going into season 3 of then all of a sudden they’ve decided to do no flip the whole show around,
I just read this last night so whatever I apologize to everyone for the exciting for a into,
media analysis which is the middle of something I could get got about all day here with Jared so clearly we should have many shows do you like the Marvel movies we should do a whole pot.

Jared:
[10:38] Oh yeah I love you my bro.

Geoff:
[10:40] I bet nobody’s done that at all. But nobody’s on.

Jared:
[10:41] No probably not.

Geoff:
[10:43] So back that hole covered in Ash we’re all the same like the temple let’s talk about,
Latter Day Saints news my dear good friends Lots has gone out especially cuz last week we had an interview when we did the we did a great interview with the author of and it was very good the Latter Day Saints sex manual,
a fascinating hour I hope you all enjoyed that so we also have because of that a lot of news this sort of,
backed up at this point right so when the person don’t want to get into here it is very interesting,
it’s just this just hit reportedly the church is putting out a survey right now,
I discussing membership members feelings about Bishops or others doing interviews not just with youth but with children as young as eight years old and,
I think the timing on this is either,
auspicious because of how sort of just Bishop interviews have been a thing in the news a lot more in the past year or so or if it’s boneheaded and the folks at PR and research are,
couldn’t of picked the worst time to engage on this issue I’m not quite sure which one I I I’m into so far on this matter,
so you’re going to.

Jared:
[12:01] I was just going to say I had similar thoughts I was like well are they maybe it was something that was already in discussion they said we will maybe we need to,
text slow down and do a little more analysis this and let’s let’s make a survey to make sure we’re on the right track or,
or maybe maybe maybe not maybe like you said maybe it’s just ignorant we are saying.

Geoff:
[12:24] A survey of existing user view structure what’s the one of the questions to ask people are aware that parents are now completely allowed to sit in on interview,
with their youth and they’re trying to gauge awareness of that to know how many people even know so that’s what the question but it’s not just about youth interviews it straight up saying like,
if we start interviewing 8 through 11 year olds,
what do you think of that but they do ask who would you prefer to conduct those interviews a bishop one of his counselors or a member of the primary presidency or members of the young man in Young Women’s Presidency,
so bear that in mind I don’t think I’ll be the worst thing in the world if what they did interviews it’s like the primary president,
was just sitting down with kids as long as it’s about kid type stuff I’m very concerned that one of the things I ask about your on a scale is essentially talking about virtue Etc like with an 8 year old.
But I’m not as on board with that.

Jared:
[13:21] Yeah yeah I’ll just say I agree with that,
I’m not as I’m bored with a lot of these Concepts but I’m not I’m not generally opposed to see idea of
sort of the get to know you or like how are you and what do Quest,
do you have or you know what do you feel like if you’ve learned this year that kind of stuff like you know if it’s about like building relationships to trust that you know that you know the old brt from the command pattern.

Geoff:
[13:53] That that was a thing people did when they were six discussions everyone I don’t even I don’t know.

Jared:
[14:00] But you know I don’t miss everything I’m supposed to be at when you get into these like is it going to be the same as like Temple recommend interviews or is it going to be about like now let’s talk about
the dangers of pornography that’s where I started to go I don’t know I don’t know why would we want to light start down this path it’s missing,
can you listen to me.

Geoff:
[14:21] Yeah and it doesn’t mention that but it does say it asks if you either preferred this be discussed no preference or not to be discussed but one of them is at worthiness broadly so it doesn’t say anything beyond that but like,
if it’s a primary kid I don’t know I don’t know if I had my kids are not my oldest has a nine or anything yet,
but I don’t know if I want a nine-year-old having an interview about worthiness cuz he’s always go off the rail.

Jared:
[14:46] Yeah yeah I mean not always but I mean there’s always there always will be an example that stands out of some of this going off the rails so.

Geoff:
[14:56] Jared Jared Jared and editor so if I drift into hyperbole or anything like that he’s going to call me on it which is good it’s good for me and.

Jared:
[15:05] Also speaking not not a landmine editor but you know I don’t want to brag but I actually have a bachelor’s degree in political science from the great at University of Brigham Young.

Geoff:
[15:17] Is that why you’re under Grandma’s is.

Jared:
[15:19] Yeah I mean in this.

Geoff:
[15:22] Me to Jared me to.

Jared:
[15:23] You know over a decade ago I won’t do it with you exactly how long ago I finished this degree but I did have to do a little bit of,
I’ve received some instruction and do a little practice in evaluating,
question you know questions on surveys and I am so there were a few times when I was being to these very questions where I kind of stopped to say,
don’t know if this was,
and I just properly edited to be a good question because you know cuz it would say something like you know you know what these interviews who do you think would be the best person to do this,
and it’s so funny because I mean I know there were separate questions that allowed the responded to say something like oh I just I don’t think I wouldn’t want this interview to happen but I kind of felt like that that choice needed to appear,
because if you were doing that and you in your your answer was I don’t want these interviews to happen and disable who would you prefer to do it would do it be the primary president or the end men’s president,
there should also be an option that says,
none of the above I don’t think this should happen and that wasn’t there and there was a few times on the survey or I thought you know they need to acknowledge that not everyone’s going to think,
one of these answers is the best answer somebody’s going to say none of these answers is the best answer you know.

Geoff:
[16:42] That’s a good that’s a good criticism mean I to Nepal like I said I’m a polysaccharide I think we both took the same poli-sci 200 and BYU.

Jared:
[16:49] Yes yes I want to get all of the credit to Doctor Ray Christensen for my ability to discuss this topic.

Geoff:
[16:56] Yes I also had real good all right,
yeah that’s a really good point we talked about people that we get incensed about,
the other issues around it but when we talk about the actual quality of the survey that’s a whole different area I’ve worked in market research before and I have admittedly composed surveys and things like that,
yeah they should have a order even treated like a screener type thing I don’t know that’s a good point if you say no I’m not comfortable with that all there should be instead of to take you to a different track where an automated questions,
asking why you are uncomfortable with things like that should be a whole other component of the survey I think they could learn a lot of good information there instead of the assumption that.
Someone’s going to do it.

Jared:
[17:40] Yeah because you don’t want to happen then who do you think the best person to conduct interview is is a moot question at this point like there’s no point.

Geoff:
[17:46] Good point that’s a that’s a good takedown right there I like it so.

Jared:
[17:51] Well.

Geoff:
[17:54] Jared you’re you’re doing great you’re opinionated about things even though you’re in a bishopric good job.

Jared:
[17:58] Oh man I really really that shoot okay yeah I’m in the.

Geoff:
[18:01] No I want out of this house.

Jared:
[18:02] It’s okay I have other credit that I’m sitting on I guess I’m saying I’ll save it for later but.
And I are you guys didn’t see it in there quotes when I said cred I wanted to actually it’s so speaking of cred I’m really good at Segways and do you know you mentioned the ds6 missionary discussions a few minutes ago,
if you remember Jeff back when we had the six missionary discussions in the end of the second discussion so ostensibly the second time you talked with a person and set down to instruct them,
they asked you at the end of that discussion to invite the first to be baptized,
I’m curious did you generally follow that that script did you get to the atom second discussion snake will you be baptized.

Geoff:
[18:49] I think I tried to do what I felt was the common sense thing and follow the spirit of it all it was only when,
when preach my gospel was announced with did not come out in Spanish before I was done one else I meant I say we are going to scratch our head to Victoria like
what is the issue band the missionaries are just sort of going through the motions and reciting the discussions and then like a Tom batons it’s inviting at the end of the second I mean you feel the pressure to do it cuz you wanted to be effective and challenge people and be bold and although in all those,
all that strong language we like to throw out there when you’re trying to pump up missionaries that are very similar to sales no thanks,
so there we always would there are as many memories of us saying we talking about it this is the second discussion when I went to the end of it,
I would have came to it like my companion might have been the one is going to do it and he didn’t do it that’s what happens like it just wasn’t there I could tell her,
so we’ll come back next time that’s fine 132 cuz I felt the discussion of the restoration was very.

Jared:
[19:54] Yeah yeah because why would you want to be baptized into a new church unless if you didn’t understand like why this new church is is something you want to join or do you know something,
different,
Michigan Right say I mix up and I think you know the correlation in the missionary Department agreed with you because now the apostasy and restoration is all part of the first the first encounter so I don’t know.

Geoff:
[20:18] Lawyered.

Jared:
[20:19] So every this is all relevant because I again if I if I are listeners are Savvy followers of the Mormon news or Latter Day Saint Christian news.

Geoff:
[20:29] Or they follow her Facebook page facebook.com this week and Mormon.

Jared:
[20:32] Yes then you could plug,
they may have seen that Elder Ballard there’s an article that we posted the test to speaking out against some invitations and basically,
the reasoning is what you just described just now that it’s supposed to be something that’s inspired by the spirit you’re supposed to evaluate the person that you’re
teaching with how they progressed how they’re embracing things where they have a testimony and are they keeping their commitments like reading the book of Mormon and come to church and then ultimately it should be the holy ghost whispers to you hey and might this person be baptized
instead apparently the missionaries are
Eminem diss assertive in a stereotype I think for a long time that were worried about the numbers you every week your District leader is going to call you up he’s going to say hey give me your numbers and,
it depends on your mission I don’t know what you want to do you guys had to report in your missing in Spain but,
I think we actually did it my mission has to report baptism invitations I think that was one of our metrics and so.

Geoff:
[21:34] I don’t remember if we did that we we did contact,
and then a girl fetus para Volver so sexual like how many like return set up to have out of your contacts base. Your sense of trying to measure the effectiveness of contacts to actual appointment set up from said contacts,
and then like wish discussion for Totten what I don’t know that we actually logs baptismal invitation.

Jared:
[21:57] I can’t remember if we did it again it’s it’s it’s longer than I care to to admit specifically on this podcast I don’t know maybe I’ll.

Geoff:
[22:07] You know it’s just as you get comfy with our listener base you can reveal all you want.

Jared:
[22:12] We have to be RT first,
but yeah I mean so it’s been awhile but I definitely we had in a new new contacts you know like,
I think we would even report you know how long we spend tracking we also had a a metric and I don’t I don’t think was on there for my home it was called oh YMS which was open your mouth which was just
yeah it was great I was probably in AP you came up with that.
Is Betty basically no I am was a Street contact like you know if you saw some of the street in like open your mouth to speak to them and try to invite them to have a discussion whatever that was something you would,
and then yeah which discussion at how many of East discussion you taught how many baptisms you had obviously was on the list but the.

Geoff:
[23:01] Yeah of course oh I am sorry that we didn’t do those we had,
you count a contact but only if you engaged in some sort of substantive gospel discussion they couldn’t be like if you walk in the streets of hey what’s up here the pass along cards.

Jared:
[23:18] Yeah that was not an oan.

Geoff:
[23:20] But it had to be something to testify about like something important but it’s funny when you think about goals like this right
because I’m sure many will serve missions even up until recent history can relate to this but like for contact our goal is 100 contacts a week,
okay,
was there pressure because of numbers to not necessarily juice that number but find creative means of obtaining it yes like one great example I wasn’t in my last area I should have known better
but
we went down there’s a beautiful Esplanade and the City of right along the Mediterranean and we go down there with our hymn books four of us to companionships and sing hymns to all the beautiful old people,
and because the hymns are a form of worship and preach Doctrine would be like I always out there I was like wait or nine people not one great to Ching about 12 over there.

Jared:
[24:08] Would you pull out your little paper planner in to start making a hash marks would like okay.

Geoff:
[24:14] Yeah we make hash marks that you do this like on a Sunday morning if your week was lights,
so that you could get up to where you would be because the one thing I hated the most cuz I did not love numbers at what I hated the most
it is only her specially was when I do the holes zones numbers and assistance would be like why was this companionships lower and I feel like I don’t know that it’s a bad week like this happened Faith now I don’t do no.

Jared:
[24:37] Call elder openshaw.

Geoff:
[24:39] I know I was terrible,
for a brief number another anecdote in the same area we want to tried to get away from numbers to see what would happen to get our mind out of the way from number so we can chat across the Zone we did a challenge where,
like a mess explained this basically we still had the tracking number said you have to turn something at the end of the week there’s no getting around that but,
what we did is we made each companionship or member the companionship
alternate so on one day of the week goes my day I will keep track of like the numbers we do but I would not share any of them with my companion
and the next day he would do them and share nothing with me and that was kind of enough so that neither of us was completely aware of how we were really doing during the week,
and we were just going to roll the dice and see how it shaped up at the end we had to tell it all up and the whole zonex at higher numbers that week than we ever normally did,
because it seemed I think we were less stressed out about hitting quotas just getting to it so,
I’ve spoken a lot about this how do you feel what about the what about the hasty,
the baptismal stuff here I’m out like that in this article down there’s three things that he says are really rough by products of when this happened namely that the members don’t want to share like their own friends and contacts with missionary.

Jared:
[25:57] Right cuz we don’t trust the missionaries.

Geoff:
[26:02] And missionary feels like sales people,
like actually talk about how bad it is for them during their mission of post-mission where they feel like they’ve engaged in high-pressure tactics to get people baptized and also course people being taught might just feel put off like why are you at.

Jared:
[26:18] Yeah and that’s the thing and it’s hard not to,
do the whole sales analogy or comparison as a missionary because you are a mean anyway you are selling something and I don’t mean that in a pejorative sense at all like you’re out there as a marketer for Christ.

Geoff:
[26:36] What it’s funny it’s funny cuz you say we’re not selling it but I’ve talked to I’ve seen him some sort of internal documents from the church Moore public affairs Realm
and if it’s a different area but this be very candidly like being a Latter-Day Saint it’s a Lifestyle brand it’s all the stuff they speak in that language so it’s funny to me when we pretend missionaries are.

Jared:
[26:53] Well so well yeah I mean even talk to her that way I was everything in the 2nd Corinthians see of the day for students of lesson prep in
you know what he he in 2nd Corinthians 5 he talks about how we’ve been entrusted with the ministry of reconciliation that we’ve been entrusted with the word and then he ends that little section by saying
we commend you to come unto Christ and be reconciled to God through him and so it’s like he’s saying like we have this thing,
and it’s our job to invite people in the audience almost as if he’s giving a sales pitch like a we commend you to God in Iowa,
yeah it’s so it’s hard not to but it’s it’s funny cuz I so my dad always told me,
that he thought I should go to see if my dad was in sales he was an insurance salesman for a while into pretty good.

Geoff:
[27:41] Oh that is excellent.

Jared:
[27:42] Yeah it’s not excellent used to use that use a pretty decent insurance salesman and I remember him to try to encourage me like Jared you should go to sales you’d be good sales and when I came back from my mission I did look in a little bit into some sales jobs and I considered a few of them
in the end I was just like you know what I don’t I don’t think I can go into sales because I’m going to sell something to somebody I really want to have dinner,
don’t for me the Integrity of like wholeheartedly believing like you need this and you need to get it from me and I was like I don’t know if I’m ever going to feel that strongly about it as if it were as strongly as I did as a mission
set this impossible standard for sale Suarez like I was fine with the offering the Gospel of Jesus Christ in the ministry of reconciliation to everyone that I came in contact with but I don’t know if I could do the same thing with like,
Pest Control home security our insurance.

Geoff:
[28:33] That makes sense,
insane but I’m in the same boat I feel like I could sell stuff well but only if you believe in it otherwise.
Like zencastr that we’re currently using is a great service people should use.

Jared:
[28:51] Aaliyah.

Geoff:
[28:52] We’re not being paid to say,
alright keep keeping on missionaries then real quick so the church has raised I don’t accept the story like to hear but the church has raised the price of admission,
essentially so it’s been a long time since the church has done this so I suppose there’s nothing exactly wrong with that but for the first time since I believe I want to say 2003,
that was when the the monthly amount missionaries pay that was set at $400,
it is now going up to $500 with a local equivalent effective July 1st.

Jared:
[29:29] What is local equivalent to saying whatever the current exchange rate is in like.

Geoff:
[29:35] I believe so yeah yeah I am assuming releases in 2020 it’s not like right.

Jared:
[29:41] I don’t know why I put Bolivar that I probably the worst example I could I use.

Geoff:
[29:45] Yeah it’s also not everywhere okay this is only there’s 18 countries affected Western Europe basically Western Europe North America Australia and Japan.

Jared:
[29:58] All very modern modernized countries.

Geoff:
[30:04] And this is the thing people need to realize we think about the $400 a month but there are plenty of missions around the world where that is still not the standard that it’s very much localized because it’s much typically is much more affordable I can’t think of a an expensive country,
that would not be covered under this and I don’t like to some random outlier I don’t know what that was Singapore,
what’s illegal to 25% increase the last time they raised it so when do they first standardized this in 1991 I think and back then it was.
350 a month so for 12 years I was 350 and they bumped it up to 400% only a 14% increase and for funsies,
I ran the inflation numbers on everything just to see how it shakes out and so even though you’re paying significantly more than hundred bucks a month to actually bring the entire cost of admission up by about twenty-five hundred bucks for a 2-year mission,
which is not insignificant but if you look at it,
okay whatever I buy this year so I just approved flation though $400 from 2003 would be $557 today,
so you’re saving $57 in that sense so you actually spending 11% less than what the inflated value is and it’s even worse if you actually do inflation from 1991 the 350 that’s $658 today.

Jared:
[31:26] I think you should go around as I sort of a circuit preacher two different words in and make that your tits like you could save money by going on a mission to compare to those missionaries of the nineties.

Geoff:
[31:36] I mean technically you do so technically if you’re going even though you’re paying more money you are still paying less than the value of the emission is what it was set up before right I mean that could be could be a completely,
random fact of this rather totally subjective.
But assuming that’s a standard then even now you’re saving $158 a month compared to what it should be worth right.

Jared:
[32:03] So at so I was at $350 a month missionary what were you 350 or 400.

Geoff:
[32:08] I guess I think I might have changed when I was there,
I was on my mission in 2002 and 2003 like clean Leon I start I went there to see on January 2nd of 2002 so my missions were,
very I mean I ended in 04 but I like to know a week and a half.

Jared:
[32:28] But since we’re being so up and I’ll tell you I went into the MTC in December of 98 so yeah I was like I was tail light in 98 to 98 mm I came home right before Christmas. Mm.

Geoff:
[32:41] Now is that how it was supposed to line up or were you naughty and came home a transfer early so you could be home.

Jared:
[32:46] The not so excited when I went to the MTC on December 16th so I would have had two Christmases in the mission you know if we had done,
I mean I already had those two under my belt and then the transfers were actually scheduled that last month when I was coming home cuz they switched from 4 weeks to 6 week transfers
in the middle of my mission that they standardize 6 with transfers all over the world,
and so then it kind of threw everything off and it made it so that you know the the way the schedule works the next transfer was supposed to be December 26th,
of 19.

Geoff:
[33:24] Which they’re not going towards her.

Jared:
[33:25] And then the next transfer that wasn’t until February because of the six answers but they went ahead and sent to the outgoing michener’s home on December 22nd.

Geoff:
[33:35] Look nice okay so stupid.

Jared:
[33:37] Which ended up causing a few missionaries in my in that group who went home to only have one one Mission Christmas I thought was kind of fun.

Geoff:
[33:46] Yeah I had to I mean we had Christmas and I went home week and a half later or whatever.
Other Side of Heaven man we watch that occur at the Christmas party and I was balling at the end of it when he leaves the island it was just like okay this is real this is over for me too in a minute did you see.

Jared:
[34:04] We haven’t we haven’t reached the era of quality LDS Cinema yet.

Geoff:
[34:09] I don’t think we had then either take the other side of him with the outlier at that point by the way did you see the sequel didn’t play out here where we are at all.

Jared:
[34:17] I was only vaguely aware that there was going to be sick I I remember seeing an advertisement for it and seem like I’m thinking he was at that same actor who played other Goldberg and it was and then it looks to see if Anne Hathaway at reprise role.

Geoff:
[34:30] No she’s that’s not her.

Jared:
[34:31] Yeah.

Geoff:
[34:33] I don’t know where it’s playing with see here it’s so far it has grossed its total domestic gross is over $1000000.

Jared:
[34:39] That’s that’s more than I would have explained.

Geoff:
[34:41] That’s pretty good but the original gross stuff 4.7 million dollars and now it only played into theaters.
Oprahside open into theaters open,
where was Ivan to the other one either.

Jared:
[35:00] Too cool.
Well as long as we’re talking about media in the church so I can just really briefly that I guess that we’re ramping up towards a 95th birthday celebration for president Nelson,
so I have a couple of thoughts in his first of all I think it’s remarkable that he’s 95 I know this is sort of like par for the course everybody says this but honestly how could you not say,
he’s so vital he’s got so much energy he doesn’t not you know seem like a 95 year old so that’s pretty exciting I commend him for his is a great ability to age well,
but then I’m going to flip.

Geoff:
[35:39] You you should protest be one of the guest artists here so you can say those exact words.

Jared:
[35:44] I commend you on your lunch every day the the,
total of my commentary a little bit here in to say why do we have birthday celebrations for the prophet like this.

Geoff:
[35:59] I don’t I don’t know.

Jared:
[36:00] Start with President Hinckley I think I remember a big concert for president clean Gladys Knight singing,
and I think it’s just cuz we were all just kind of like keeping our profit for so long and,
he’s getting old and I was like okay I can kind of see this but the fact that we keep on doing it to me and I don’t want to be used to strong language here you know like you said I don’t like hyperbole while I like it in certain contacts but not in contacts,
Justin here but I kind of feel like it’s inappropriate,
and I don’t know if that’s too strong of a word but I just I don’t know I have people say Hey you Mormons you guys are the ones we’re Joseph Smith right and we don’t and so like I don’t I don’t know I just kind of thing.

Geoff:
[36:40] I’m yeah.

Jared:
[36:40] Picture of things that might be misconstrued as us elevating a human,
anywhere above where he ought to be elevated and you know we do thank God for a prophet to guide us in these last four days but,
we also I think need to recognize that another Prophet his job is to point us to Christ we’re not supposed to be like focusing our adoration or adulation or whatever on President Nelson she’s supposed to be,
redirecting all of our Focus from him towards the Savior and so when we have a big birthday bash I kind of go why.

Geoff:
[37:15] I’m can I get it for me this feeds into I’ve I’ve over the past couple of years I’ve soured a little bit on some of the profits Centric hymns that we have and especially because they’re redoing the hymn book right now,
yes I Revere Joseph Smith I’m so thankful for what he did as an imperfect man who fig was figuring it out as he went and made and committed errors and all those things,
I don’t know like for me Hemsworth form of worship,
and then we going to church and seeing you know praise to the man and all the stuff that price of the man is the one that gets me like Joseph Smith’s first prayer I don’t mind as much it’s a beautiful song but bracing the man is like straight up like it’s like all hail,
Joseph Smith that’s basically what the song is.

Jared:
[38:02] You know.

Geoff:
[38:03] And I might become a lot more mix other than I used to be.

Jared:
[38:06] Are you aware that we’ve with that we don’t sing the original lyrics of that song.

Geoff:
[38:10] I’m not aware of that no tell me.

Jared:
[38:11] Okay here’s some fun trivia for you so when the in the I think it’s the last verse so we say long shall his blood which was shed by ass ass,
Honda Heaven while the Earth loves the same the original lyric Panda by William W Phelps was long shall his blood which is shed by assassins stain Illinois while the Earth loudcest.
And it was until the early nineteen-hundreds at the church I got another state of Florida part of the time it’s somebody with some PR Savvy said you know what maybe we shouldn’t sing about the prophets blood staining Illinois anymore.

Geoff:
[38:50] We got to bring that back.

Jared:
[38:51] Right.

Geoff:
[38:53] Oh yeah I need that I need that.

Jared:
[38:55] Not only that I also kind of wish that we had an alternate version of The Battle Hymn of the Republic in the books a week so that we could sing John Brown’s Body lies a-mouldering in the grave.

Geoff:
[39:05] I don’t know what you’re talking about.

Jared:
[39:07] What’s the original song about John Brown and his martyrdom in the in the cause of freeing the slaves and then a Savvy Union,
no I can’t remember her name so Union person sheet,
mr. Popular abolitionist hymn tune and she wrote the lyrics to be The Battle Hymn of the Republic you know that we know we’re all marching is an army unit right just cause,
originally the original lyrics that the title of the song was John Brown’s Body lies a-mouldering.

Geoff:
[39:44] Okay what are you doing back to come on America’s choir sing that one.

Jared:
[39:48] Yeah I would love that anyway so in addition to my undergrad thank you for using tablets I love that.

Geoff:
[39:56] It’s got to be tapped that’s all I can be.

Jared:
[39:57] Addition to my undergrad as a poli-sci major I do have a masters in American history so that’s why that’s why I know that,
obviously I wrote my thesis on John Brown spot. I’m just kidding but I do I do love history and I have studied.

Geoff:
[40:14] What what did you write your thesis on.

Jared:
[40:16] Play it was a non thesis program so I didn’t have to do it at formal thesis it was more of a it’s called a Capstone project,
and I I I wrote about Craig Claiborne who was America’s first male,
head of a food section of a national newspaper he was while he was the first male head of the food section for the New York Times in this is in the 1950s when cooking at home was very much a woman’s Realm
and so it’s really interesting to have a man take over who also was a relatively for the time relatively open,
gay man so Craig Claiborne was yet pretty colorful character and he was all about cooking and he kind of made a cooking at home okay for men like that’s the kind of way you start to get the image of the mail,
Backyard BBQ cooks and things like that and he also kind of is credited with raising the standard of a restaurant reviews and recipes in a week we were moving out of the molded Jell-O Savory Jell-O salad phase of American,
cooking life and moving into like the the French recipes and sauces that are G eyes were bringing back after the second World War
yeah it was really it was fun it was a really fun writing project cuz I I like food and I like history and I like media you know newspapers and so it was pretty cool
so if you have any questions about Craig Claiborne I got some answers.

Geoff:
[41:38] And if you have any questions about cattle on nationalism I can answer those cuz that’s what I did my Master’s work on.

Jared:
[41:45] It was your Master’s in it was something with international relations is that right.

Geoff:
[41:49] I have I have a master’s degree in nationalism study.

Jared:
[41:52] I believe you did that in Scotland was that at University of it.

Geoff:
[41:57] I did that yep yeah I went University of Edinboro.

Jared:
[42:00] I didn’t say right and Edinboro I know it wasn’t Edinburgh but.

Geoff:
[42:04] Good enough you dinkleberg so that’s points for that you’re fine doing great it was a wonderful time I miss it very very much and it’s been awhile,
anyway I so Honor Code stuff is just dropped today at the BYU Honor Code office the much-maligned Honor Code office announced just today,
did it will quote reduce misunderstanding in a and anxiety through some updates to the program,
obviously if you’ve been following the honor code for the past number of years BYU’s been in,
so much hot water cuz of Title 9 issues both and dealing with like sexual assault issues on campus but then beyond that just how it handles,
honor code violations of consensual nature in whatever it may be either way there
I got a lot of bad PR without have been handling all of this and I don’t think just bad PR they flat-out been handling it very poorly and haven’t gone to BYU I never gotten
I never had a run-in with the Honor Code office but I was all too aware of how pharisaic will they could be about things so they’re working on being better,
allegedly and this is another step to to move forward with that I remember in April there was another protest against the Honor Code office at BYU.

Jared:
[43:17] Which is so interesting right I went to BYU and I was like did you ever see a protest on campus.

Geoff:
[43:25] I’ve mentioned this on the show before I was there for to protest.

Jared:
[43:27] Really that’s interesting.

Geoff:
[43:30] I was there for the Todd Hendricks protest Todd Hendricks was a a he’s getting his master’s degree they’re only worked for BYU essay,
and I’m a little more fuzzy on it now but if memory serves he wrote an op-ed about like,
institutional things that should be fixed for BYU I say to be like a truly good representative body or something like that but it is the The Establishment took it to me and he was thrashing his employer,
and so it wasn’t just that they fired him instead it came out that they try to hush him and just said look,
if you don’t go to the Press they said like your wife is pregnant will keep you on health care as long as you don’t tell people about his firing you.

Jared:
[44:10] I don’t know.

Geoff:
[44:11] For the sort of stuff and so he went to the press and said whatever and so there were protests on campus with people chanting by USSR it was really fun,
I’ve got I’ve got pictures if you want to see if it was cracked so that people like duct taping their mouths and there might be why USSR basically that being a BYU was too afraid of free speech and of letting people.

Jared:
[44:31] Yeah that that duct tape of your mouth if it’s real cutting-edge stuff.

Geoff:
[44:34] Yeah really right now so truth to power on that one and then Dick Cheney then vice president.

Jared:
[44:40] I do not remember that I was after my time but I remember reading about that.

Geoff:
[44:43] Yeah he was going to be there the commencement speaker and there was a large protest people thinking that because he profiteer. Funeral killing people shouldn’t be the one.

Jared:
[44:52] It doesn’t go there cuz that’s kind of at the beginning of like that whole like that was towards the beginning of the of the whole college campuses protesting speakers that they don’t like coming you know that that kind of Legend,
like a decade of of people say I don’t want to listen to this person cuz they represent opposing viewpoints.

Geoff:
[45:11] And that other guy was mixed on a to I may feel like look as the standing Vice President of the United States,
and so that alone is like a big deal and an honor if you get to have that at your University I mean a lot of other universities have some random Saturday Night Live comedian who comes through a door for a while right so,
not at BYU they would never have that far to ruble but,
but I understand the other side of it I mean the rock wore back then was that was it was very unpopular and very hot and Cheney was good as the Mastermind behind so much of it and Halliburton and all that stuff so I get why.

Jared:
[45:47] I like your use of the past tense the back then the Iraq War was very unpopular unlike the shining example of wars that it is today it’s the gold standard divorce.

Geoff:
[45:57] Be nice to the United States or we will bring democracy to your country.

Jared:
[45:59] Or else I’ll bring it hard and fast.

Geoff:
[46:03] Anyway real quick so they’re the biggest change here is a good faith statement that said students will be presumed to be not in violation of the honor code at the gate
that’s right ladies and gentlemen this will not be like the,
what British law where you have to defend yourself from guilt no no you are considered innocent until proven guilty now at BYU congratulations,
Westerly.

Jared:
[46:26] I mean yeah I like your sarcastic Clap by I felt the sarcasm with you two it’ll beat of your palms but,
but having it is Big that last one has been one of the main complaint is that you know,
9 people and I don’t know how much of this hyperbole but you know you hear these stories of somebody saying like well my roommate said that I did this and the Honor Code office immediately took action in like suspended me or put me on,
do whatever it without ever like actually investigating deseo,
did you do that you know like and so an Indian underwear all sorts of ridiculous things like I went back to help,
oh girl move her dresser in her bedroom and then I got recorded the outer could office and it’s been an academic probation or whatever you know it’s like the fact that they are recognizing hey we should allow other people to,
share their side of the story before we make a decision like it seems ridiculous but it’s a big step forward.

Geoff:
[47:24] It’s a good idea I’m so glad when I was at BYU I did not have lunatic roommates.

Jared:
[47:28] No

Geoff:
[47:30] I remember one time I had a friend of mine was even our War 2 different from California and she didn’t really know her home teacher she asked if she could give her a blessing,
and she was like their bikes like I said just you know come to my place oh yeah like we went to my bedroom and I gave her a blessing cuz that my roommates in no hurry know it was going to be like a thing we do publicly in the living room,
it’s fine like Spirit of a lot people.

Jared:
[47:52] I would have reported yes I would have named names.

Geoff:
[47:56] Go ahead see if I care about having fun I’ll just protested. Hendrick man.

Jared:
[48:01] You know it is written in the dark I’ll at least it was when I was there you know they basically said like there was sort of this little caveat this year for that Gwen went for priority dictates
that you no exceptions can be made it so that I can example is always like week if you need to go to the bathroom like
it’s okay to go pass to the portable chassis line so you can go use the bathroom in the opposite end of the apartment so you know.

Geoff:
[48:27] And yeah yeah.

Jared:
[48:28] I think you know you can probably make an argument that you know with wanting privacy for giving a blessing that I know they’re missing a cig.

Geoff:
[48:34] It makes sense but it’s amazing.
If it’s amazing how myopic we can be in a row it’s just stuff like that could be ridiculous so I’m glad I’m glad they’re making positive stride,
American best rock couple of mentioned that you before Jared take some other stuff there are we are slowly trickling out Saints if you remember last Summer’s hot Beach read Saints volume 1,
which is a history of the Saints it was the nice nice and narrative The Way It Was Written to tried to get into some of the sort of thorny rasp,
of all of our history I admit it did kind of gloss over just Smith and polygamy a little bit more than it needed to probably,
either way it was worthwhile and I think it was a great effort to get everyday Latter Day Saints more engaged on church history cuz I think of the people we really don’t know much of our stuff Beyond,
a lot of the classic Basics right so,
it’s always enjoyable in his crate so since Volume 2 is not out in its entirety instead they are releasing chapters piecemeal on like a monthly basis so right now you can read chapter 1,
online.

Jared:
[49:40] And sometime next month in August you’ll get chapter 2 and I’m going to keep doing that at some point that it’s not like it’s going to be chapter-by-chapter until we have the whole book at some point your volume on us.

Geoff:
[49:51] Yeah I’m used to study on chapter book a presumably so I don’t think that would really work but for now they’re just teasing it out so if you want to read that and stay up on it I admittedly have not gotten into the new one yet and I don’t know exactly where it starts,
discover.

Jared:
[50:06] Yeah I I did I I went I when I saw the announcement I went and downloaded that first chapter on my,
Knoxville Library act and its on its opening a tab on that app but I have not as yet Reddit so
I thought Smiley one was great and is going to provide a Counterpoint it and I agree it probably could have gotten a little more into some of the controversial things like little marriage and Joseph Smith’s wives but I thought as I was reading through the
they did much address that much more thoroughly than I’ve ever seen,
I applauded not just a plural marriage there are a lot of things but I know a lot of things that like we didn’t talk about when I was a used because.

[50:47] We didn’t talk about I didn’t know about,
I was learning things left and right and it once again remember I have a history degree so you think I know it all but I don’t,
and I was like I was really enjoyed reading it because there’s a lot of things I thought I never known that before I never had this perspective for they brought a lot of perspective of women,
do the church history stuff to what I thought was great but I’m really looking forward to it Volume 2 because volume 1 is the portion of church history we generally talk the most about,
of the Domaine
you know so the Cradle of restoration stuff up through the martyrdom in the completion of the Nauvoo Temple and we obviously talked a lot about the track West as well but once we hit the lake and start laying the foundation for the temple like
there’s this kind of long blank. Until official declaration one where we don’t really talk about that history so I’m really looking forward to seeing what this Vine.

Geoff:
[51:45] Officially the years is going to cover the 1846 to 1893 so I imagine it’s going to culminate with the temple dedication.

Jared:
[51:52] I was out like yeah yeah and that’ll be great stuff that goes on in there that I don’t really know about except for like going to reading some of my family history stuff which is obviously very focused on you know not very many people.

Geoff:
[52:06] I’m sure I’m curious to see how it’ll handle a Mountain Meadows that’ll be in
singing worth while I hope I’m curious to see what it does with John Taylor’s presidency because if I think if Joseph Smith
Brigham Young of course made it Mark I think Wilford Woodruff is most known because he was president when the Salt Lake Temple was dedicated in a lot of his life and it revolves around around that another episode in church history and John Taylor versus a big figure
but I think if you had asked a lot of Latter Day Saints like what notable things happened went while John Taylor was president of the church.
I don’t think that all of us would have a lot to add other than I think I think what they like an exile for a while he was president,
the Canada for a while or something like that.

Jared:
[52:51] I was going to say he actually died while he was in hiding from the US government,
so I mean I want it I mean tonight I get it you know we were trying to exercise but we felt was our freedom of religion to,
practice plural marriage cetera whatever so I understand that you know why but like it’s just an interesting fact that like,
he basically died while the US government considered him a fugitive and I would love to see I’m really looking forward to seeing how that gets dressed in an official Church.

Geoff:
[53:22] That’s got to be a nice guy.

Jared:
[53:24] Oh I’m sure it will be but I just want to see you how they talk about it and I’ve been really pleasantly surprised with the Cannabis of saints volume 1 it’s still devotional text.

Geoff:
[53:34] Oh yeah totally totally.

Jared:
[53:36] There’s also some break and discussion of some of the more controversial aspects of our history and so I’m I’m very much looking forward to seeing
have they talked about that and they talked about the Johnsons Army in the Mormon Wars again.

Geoff:
[53:50] And besides you know what the rough Stone Rolling is another example of it but it’s a lot denser and on top of that I want sat next to Richard Bushman church and he didn’t even Fellowship me so why why should yeah.

Jared:
[53:59] What you were you going to church up in Manhattan.

Geoff:
[54:04] I was up in Manhattan was right next to me and I was just like hey said nothing and I said you can take her ass old man how dare you write your books shame.

Jared:
[54:15] He said a lot so I think you know.

Geoff:
[54:17] I know that that word his word in Manhattan this kind of like this all Star Wars as far as the Adam and Eve from the now-retired temple movie with Michael Ballam are also in that.

Jared:
[54:27] Yeah I have intended that word once and I think it was actually it was in October so it was their primary program it was delightful.

Geoff:
[54:38] That was supposed to Manhattan all right waiting to hear Jared do you want to take the birds to tasks do you want to get into that one.

Jared:
[54:45] Sure I mean I don’t know how much we want to talk about this and again if you follow our Facebook feed or if you are just kind of a Savvy consumer of the verge.

Geoff:
[54:56] I am actually the birds like everyday.

Jared:
[54:57] Consume it as I as I.

Geoff:
[55:06] The end The Verge by the bridge primary is it to technology website is at exide so it’s where you want to eat about phones and MacBooks and all kinds of junk like that but they have a story about us.

Jared:
[55:15] Right well I guess so I could do this kind of crossed into their domain no pun intended because,
they are as a story that says they’re talking about a website called quitmormon is a quitmormon., contra,
not one of our sponsors,
Martin website where a lawyer who is the former,
LDS member himself makes it as quick and easy as he can for members who don’t want to be married anymore to leave church generally,
for those of you who haven’t looked into this too much you need to go and talk with your Bishop you can even.

[55:53] Send a letter to your Bishop it doesn’t even require an interview but you generally requires you to talk to your bishop and say I want my records removed,
at and I guess the fear that some people have or Nothing Even Ivan fears probably too strong to wear just the inconvenience that some people see is that,
their Bishop may try to convince them not to or even just asked questions like what why do you want to do this and they don’t want to deal with all that hate,
I want to counsel with you junk and so instead sorry I’m being for that I understand that this is a sensitive topic for people in that
then I got that people have their reasons we want to leave the church that’s why I’m sorry I don’t mean to be a little that at all but so do they idea is that you can bypass that whole process and this lawyer has come up with a way to basically just,
send a an official legal request directly to Church Headquarters or as it has been having for the last several months directly to the church’s Law Firm,
did you ask him that your records removed and has been quite effective actually know at least one person off top my head who’s who’s who’s done this,
it’s an article in that you know it addressed something that’s happening it’s a very relevant Topic in the church today,
especially since there were a few a couple of events over the last 2 years that caused a lot of people to want to leave the church in larger numbers or are these people who have kind of been on the edge suddenly decided to do it.

Geoff:
[57:17] We like the the policy.

Jared:
[57:20] Write the policy and even the rescinding of the policy put some people to you know so it takes all kinds I guess but,
I just I don’t I didn’t love the article I felt like it Stone was not very,
objective I guess that’s as probably an overstatement that stone was not very objective
you know when it would say basically like what I was really getting what I was getting from it was like what you know people are leaving the church because the truth of their the unvarnished truth of their history is now available to them on the Internet,
so once they figured out the truth so naturally they want to leave and I was like well,
thanks for the objective stating of all sides of the story is my favorite while one of my favorite part was when they called spawn Brody’s no man knows my history and unvarnished approach to Mor Furniture,
knetbooks carries so much bias that it listens.

[58:17] Disrespectful and Brody herself as a person but I actually I used in my I had to write a historiography,
paper at one point I chose the topic of Mormon polygamy as my topic for the historiography and I used one Brody as one of my sources,
and one of the things,
that she talks about in her own introduction she cuz she’s doing this psychoanalytical approach to history which was kind of new and novel and which eventually fell out of fashion because it was,
deemed not a valid approach to writing by Circle figures anyway but she says hey I’m doing the psychoanalytical approach and I
and then she says you know I don’t actually have any background in Psychology so I’m not really qualified to do this but I’m going to do it anyway and I’m paraphrasing but I love that she even like stated that she really wasn’t qualified right
but heck let’s give it a go so I don’t know
that’s my that’s my random elf on Brodie no man knows my history and NS my red brother could have used a little more nuanced and a little more hey let’s not that they didn’t quote
church spokespeople and church resources they did do a little bit of that
but I got the whole tone of the thing was sort of like it’s a foregone conclusion that once you learn your true history you’re going to want to leave this church.

Geoff:
[59:41] I agree with you I thought the same thing when I read through it all right quick mention here so just interesting there was a guy who’s a temple worker at the Payson Temple down there in southern Utah county in the state of Utah who put his hair up in dreads and.

Jared:
[59:55] What’s a good look for him I got to say.

Geoff:
[59:57] Yeah it works pretty well so he didn’t even so he didn’t tell you this nephew sent a picture to his shift worker at the temple or shift manager is just told him I hear some heads up
you know so you won’t be shocked my show up and then he got a call from his Temple president saying the dreadlocks violated Church guidelines and he couldn’t come in he was like okay
Soho.

Jared:
[1:00:17] Because there was like this gap between they saw him have it and they were fine and then suddenly wasn’t fine.

Geoff:
[1:00:25] Yeah,
so the man question says that normally he’d let it go but he decided to put a photo on social media that said hey my black brothers and sisters this hairstyle will get you released as an ordinance worker.

Jared:
[1:00:40] What a rabble-rouser.

Geoff:
[1:00:41] So by Saturday morning the next day the temple president called after being in contact with the church of Temple Department,
and the decision was now that he’s okay he can do this the church itself has declined to comment which is not surprising,
it’s at that that’s the basically the whole story and thankfully he doesn’t have any hard feelings about this doesn’t think there was racism or thought it was a good faith,
that’s fine but the cracks me up that they flipped around so quickly and went all the way up to the temple Department to just get this,
cleared up as opposed to just not who cares I know Temple workers have to have a conservative look but if they’re allowing him by the way then they better as heck need to allow people to have beards well-groomed beard the beard.

Jared:
[1:01:29] Why is it why do you feel so strong about beards Jeff doo doo doo sport a well-groomed beard yourself.

Geoff:
[1:01:34] Yes so this is fair this is where at least we’re good journalist offers full disclosure in that I have a beard so I have a stick and a stick in the game the game.

Jared:
[1:01:45] If your friend pick up sticks at Sabella.

Geoff:
[1:01:48] Yeah yeah yeah that’s that’s the game that Justin Smith like the playwright.

Jared:
[1:01:52] I got a stick in this game in.

Geoff:
[1:01:54] That’s the one so anyway I just I think this is good it’s inclusive but if we’re doing this let’s set a good precedent and be a little more open-minded about some people who might also look perfectly acceptable by,
I was going to say by 2019 standards but I forgot that we don’t adhere to the standards of the world the lord standards are rooted,
in early 1960s the reactionary measures against.

Jared:
[1:02:20] Not with her anymore because women can wear pants in the church office building now so.

Geoff:
[1:02:23] That’s true but they can’t at the temple.

Jared:
[1:02:26] Is this your mission is kind of sure you guys ready.

Geoff:
[1:02:29] Baby steps baby steps.

Jared:
[1:02:31] Speaking of now there’s no consigue to this so I just one of the things that you know.

Geoff:
[1:02:37] Star Trek you like Star Trek.

Jared:
[1:02:39] Star Trek,
and there is it it’s summertime so naturally it is the season of track reenactments because what better time to recreate 19th century traveling conditions Been In the Heat of the summer.

Geoff:
[1:02:55] I hate Trek so much and I’ve never done it cuz it’s just okay go ahead.

Jared:
[1:03:00] I didn’t expect that while I was quiet that was kind of explosion of the motion right there from,
from chat like I don’t I don’t know if I had to say I hate check I do question the idea of the trick eye
I just I think it’s super interesting I think it’s I think it’s an interesting form of pageantry shall we call it that we like to pretend like we are a Pioneer forebears and kind of give tribute to them and maybe
try to experience what they experience but man when you’re in Utah and it’s like in the upper 90s,
it’s not a good time to put your hand cart and not have air conditioning or access to running water.

Geoff:
[1:03:39] Who yeah but it’s a dry heat so.

Jared:
[1:03:41] Well tell that to the 300 use who are on top of with where were they at where they Ensign Peak
and they are suddenly 300D I used came down with a terrible case of heat exhaustion and dehydration I remember reading this this is just you know in the last week it was the last week that was last week
and at that time my nephew who lives in American Fork was on a track,
I hope it’s not I hope it’s not him and he wasn’t so Josh glad you’re okay but yeah I don’t know I think if we’re going to continue doing these trucks and and maybe we shouldn’t,
but if we are we got to use some wisdom and maybe,
you know not only have a big water wagon but maybe also ensure that proper electrolytes are being consumed and proper shade is being offered and I don’t know if we’re going to like this it’s like,
do it all the way and actually hire some oxen mule team so that these kids don’t have to push their hand carts all by themselves.

Geoff:
[1:04:42] All right turn or just don’t do it at all.

Jared:
[1:04:45] Or just undo it and.

Geoff:
[1:04:47] And realized it. Just as this is we know we try to experience of the Pioneers experience the Pioneers did not deal with,
social media pressures and pornography and.

Jared:
[1:05:02] Anti-vaxxers.

Geoff:
[1:05:03] And multi-level marketing,
anti-vaxxers and crap like that so I think we have our own set of issues to worry about I’m just I’m deeply anti Trek I’m glad they didn’t do it growing up in California it was not a thing like why so I don’t view the Mountain West.

Jared:
[1:05:20] Older siblings went on a track when I was like 12 or 13 size just barely getting it was 14 and up I’ve just barely missed it and they didn’t do another trick while they use and I remember being really disappointed but I’m okay with it now,
so you like you said you know maybe we don’t need to go and experience it and
maybe with the release of Saints going to wear will actually have a really good authority Dove detailed account of the track that will preamp need Taxi
recreate text we can just have the youth be those chapters and we can talk about them and then we can you know if they really want to have them kill a chicken in someone’s backyard.
That’s something that happens on trackman you have to kill a chicken anyway.

Geoff:
[1:06:03] For real they killed.

Jared:
[1:06:04] All right that’s what I remember my brother and sister coming home and be like yeah.

Geoff:
[1:06:08] Devil is wrong with their oh my gosh alright the show is over we’re already running long so,
anyway everyone of course you can visit us at this week in Mormons. Cam where you can read all of them
neat stuff that we publish there and we mentioned before please follow us on Facebook and on Twitter and Instagram where we occasionally do things if you want a feminine approach you can also follow the twin sisters on Instagram that Siri on end,
Tiffany who will be here next week by the way and of course please go to patreon patreon. Com this week in Mormons and pledged a buck a month,
so we’re asking so that we can pay our hosting fees and server fees and all that nonsense to try to keep this thing going in an unobtrusive way,
etc etc. So I would like to thank Jared on this week.

Jared:
[1:06:57] The buzzer I’m looking forward to doing more of this.

Geoff:
[1:06:59] Well and it will see.

Jared:
[1:07:01] Things that you don’t know about me that was supposed to like really like bit you in like.

Geoff:
[1:07:07] All that’s true okay so to him again when Jared returns to to Enlighten us more about special details about himself which I’m sure will be riveting.

Jared:
[1:07:16] Dillon’s Mystique as they call it.

Geoff:
[1:07:19] That’s what I should name this episode I’ve already as I’ve already got some other potential ones and I’ll put that one down here to the gillen’s Mystique,
beautiful anyway thanks so much for listening everybody we cannot do to him without you and for the bottom of my heart,
glad you’re all here and I can make this worthwhile for all of us so for Jared I’m Jeff have a terrific week and will talk to you soon be well be holy and be happy.