It’s finally happened! Geoff and Josie successfully recorded a show without and technological hiccups! Praise the day!

How can we create more inclusion at church? A new piece by, well, the church discusses how to recognize those that might feel left out and what behavior we can engage in to make our wards a more inviting, thoughtful place. It’s good stuff.

Josie has our international news roundup, including:

The Church is growing massively in Mozambique with three new stakes predicted by the end of the year/

The Southeast Africa Area, which covers the lion’s share of Africa, is going to be divided, which makes a ton of sense given the amount of membership growth in recent years.

Mongolia will be taken out of the Asia Area and moved to the Asia North Area. So yeah.

It’s not all bad in Venezuela. The country held its first young single adult conference!

Indonesia held its first ever youth conference! Cool!

Prince Ata of Tonga visits Utah and spends an inordinate amount of time in Provo.

The Church opens a new family history center in downtown Paris.

The best story of the week: some saints in New Zealand flip out about seeing rare crane on the local meetinghouse’s property wall.

Activist Sam Young will hold a new rally in Salt Lake City as he continues his push to prevent youth from sitting in unnecessarily invasive bishop’s interviews.

A Latter-day Saint state senator from Arizona falls into some hot water for warning us that America is being, uh, infested by “brown” people. Neat.

What would the electoral college look like if the State of Deseret had become a reality? It would be the largest in the country!

The Interpreter has a review of Michael Quinn’s new book on church finances has , and it’s a doozy.

Living stipends! Who cares? Daniel Peterson does.

In the most moving story of the week, a stake president anonymously comes out as gay. An active stake president. It’s quite thought provoking.

Transcript

Geoff:
[0:00] What’s that you hear it’s me Jeff from this week in Mormons I’m holding the mic like a passionate singer,
to show you how much I care and I really hope you’re hearing this episode right now that’s all I have to say cuz once again I’m joined by my partner in,
technological Misadventures are residents expat Australian Singaporean,
Josie what you consider yourself are you a citizen of the world do you call yourself that world citizen are you one of those people.

Josie:
[0:31] I don’t know,
I mean if we’re going off of passports we could do that but let’s just stick with American Australian now in Singapore that works for me,
but yes I also hope that people get to hear this episode cuz I feel like a veteran of the show now but in reality I’ve only ever been able to be on what I said.

Geoff:
[0:56] I mean this literally has to be the.

Josie:
[0:58] 3rd Force.

Geoff:
[1:00] 434 time we recently sat down so fingers crossed it works out there’s this weird curse going on between the two of us where the audio is always all messed up afterwards.

Josie:
[1:11] Genovia.

Geoff:
[1:11] We don’t know why I don’t have this issue anywhere anywhere else it’s very strange I’m hoping it’s not because I’m guessing because you’re in Singapore there’s like viruses coming into my computer from you.

Josie:
[1:22] Could be I can make a lot of jokes about the government right now but I’d like to continue living in Singapore so I’m going to keep this to myself.

Geoff:
[1:30] You can’t do that in Singapore everyone thinks it’s as fun little Utopia but that comes at a cost order comes at a cost.

Josie:
[1:34] It sure does I mean.

Geoff:
[1:40] Incidentally I follow a travel vlogging couple that I enjoy Kara and Nate town if anybody’s ever watch them if you’re a listener let me know.

Josie:
[1:48] This is not where I thought this conversation was going please.

Geoff:
[1:51] I just wanted to see so my understanding is next to the airport there is like a big mall type thing inside it has some massive indoor like waterfall thing I forgot his name.

Josie:
[2:01] Juul yes it’s a new shopping mall.

Geoff:
[2:05] I’m all basically but the but the shots like.

Josie:
[2:08] Singapore is basically one giant mall that’s that’s what we do here,
but yes so you can walk directly out of your terminal or sometimes you don’t even have to leave,
the airport’s there’s some underground sorta saying that you can just get straight into the shopping mall next door and it is the next big thing and I’m not sure why everyone so excited.

Geoff:
[2:32] Well because they put like a 10-story indoor waterfall.

Josie:
[2:37] Yeah it’s pretty cool.

Geoff:
[2:39] That counts for something.

Josie:
[2:41] Yeah yeah.

Geoff:
[2:43] I’ve never been to Singapore,
speak from experience I just think it seems really Nick.

Josie:
[2:49] It is a cool waterfall and they’ve made like a really nice,
sort of sitting areas for the kind of like graduated Terraces with lots of greenery and foliage sort of stuff so you can sit amongst your plans and watch the waterfall and that’s kind of cool and they are cons on which is important and,
and then you go shopping at you know Prada or Lululemon or whatever your heart.

Geoff:
[3:15] Oh yes Lululemon.

Josie:
[3:16] And then wait in line for Shake Shack for about 2 hours just to get to the front and then another hour for your food.

Geoff:
[3:24] That’s what Shake Shack is overrated.

Josie:
[3:27] Well I mean maybe where you are where you have a greater selection of,
sorts of Singapore has lots of different types of food and lots of different Western food.

Geoff:
[3:40] It’s Singapore yeah come on.

Josie:
[3:41] Yeah but I mean we’re not exactly a burger Central so I think it’s more of that when something new comes and,
singaporeans are excited about it everybody’s excited about it and they all go and they wait in line for ever.

Geoff:
[3:58] Fierce man I would never in my life I get bothered if I go to anatomy of a Shake Shack in the Nats stadium and if I have to wait there for 10 minutes annoying.

Josie:
[4:06] Oh no no no it is one of the longest lines I’ve ever seen in Singapore and it’s been open for several months now and it is still a line.

Geoff:
[4:16] It’s like when they open a brand new in and out in Texas or something people just can’t get enough man legit.

Josie:
[4:22] I’ll take your word for that one but anyways.

Geoff:
[4:25] Shake Shack’s good but it’s boring I find it’s good quality but but the flavor rich is kind of straightforward.

Josie:
[4:30] Who I like it I like a classic I don’t want any weird like blue cheese sort of sauce on I know just playing classic burger Maybe.

Geoff:
[4:40] See there’s a there’s a burger chain sort of chain there’s three locations in DC and then there’s some like Saudi Arabia and wanted Philadelphia called good stuff,
I’m a big supporter of good stuff they do they have the Obama Burger because of the Obamas actually order out.

Josie:
[4:56] I’ve been there.

Geoff:
[4:58] Our staffers so the Obama Burger is really good it’s got grilled onions in a crock of four cheese it’s it’s delightful so I know it might be too fancy.

Josie:
[5:05] Yeah I know I just it’s kind of like when you go to a pizza place and you just want to get a margarita pizza to see if that pizza is good cuz then you can trust the toppings but you want the classic first.

Geoff:
[5:19] Yeah that’s what I do.

Josie:
[5:21] Yeah okay.

Geoff:
[5:23] I definitely don’t jump into prosciutto and arugula at the gate never.

Josie:
[5:27] I wanted a salad I would order a salad.

Geoff:
[5:31] You sound just like some other,
arugula is amazing everyone and there’s a lot of people who are not on board but they should be it’s some delightful stuff so how is your life what’s going on in the other side of the world tell us about the things of.

Josie:
[5:47] I I have well I I keep thinking that I should come up with some sort of trip she Singapore news and really the best that I’ve got,
the best I’ve got this week is that I have discovered the Singaporean equivalent of church ball,
it is fantastic I mean considering that I have zero experience with church Ball but there is a group of majority Chinese age maybe like 60 plus,
people who get together on Tuesdays and Friday night and have the most competitive badminton competition and it is so great and I
I’m thrilled my 2 years of playing in high school has got me into the club I am now I am allowed in the WhatsApp group that was,
that was that was an accomplishment they didn’t want me at the first.

Geoff:
[6:43] Who plays Batman in high school.

Josie:
[6:45] The people who didn’t want to go into like cheerleading or softball or swimming tennis I guess that was an option that one was outdoor let’s be honest I was going to play badminton,
no I needed that I was probably one of those that I needed a credit in my friends must have just said hey you let’s just do this instead.

Geoff:
[7:07] But then you did it for two years. Like you just needed a credit for some semester.

Josie:
[7:10] That’s true,
yeah I don’t know it’s pretty fun but our team was absolutely horrible I think we lost almost every single game and our high school didn’t even know that like we really had a team been forgotten many times.

Geoff:
[7:26] So there in Singapore does this like replace Church ball is it kind of like that.

Josie:
[7:30] Yeah I think that they weren’t that we’re not a basketball playing community over here no no,
they’re much better at badminton.

Geoff:
[7:38] Does it get that in time and we just talked I think on last week’s episode about how and Utah I got tried to sue the church over an injury sustained during church basketball on the Utah Supreme Court ruled that you can’t sue for some reason so.

Josie:
[7:52] Yeah.

Geoff:
[7:53] Is it a good that ferocious with the badminton like really hot.

Josie:
[7:55] No it’s I mean it’s not really a contact sport so no.

Geoff:
[7:59] Could be officially basketball is also not a contact sport you’re not supposed to be smashing into people.

Josie:
[8:04] Really.

Geoff:
[8:06] What’s charger let me know when you get there is contact okay I’ll give it at this content.

Josie:
[8:12] Once again basketball not my forte so maybe this can Paris isn’t working very well but.

Geoff:
[8:17] I don’t know I don’t play.

Josie:
[8:18] It is pretty great and let me tell you that those six year olds they can move they are they have my goodness so anyways,
it took me it took me a while to prove myself that I was good enough to play with them and buy that meaning
I actually get being quite a lot since really embarrassing dear but they’re good fun and then they will like shout things at Mandarin in each other and it kind of forgets that’s
there’s me on the court who has absolutely no idea what’s going on but they’re also.

Geoff:
[8:54] So you might you might say they’re being a little too exclusive.

Josie:
[9:00] Maybe some people would feel that way right now I mean most of it’s just grunting they’re just kind of like and it’s like it’s like,
maybe some other people would say dude but they just kind of like her and Grumble at each other,
I have no explanation of that but I think it’s I think it’s hilarious and quite entertaining so yeah I’ve.

Geoff:
[9:25] Well well well well I just I was.

Josie:
[9:26] I have been Fellowship tinta badminton and is Santa.

Geoff:
[9:29] Okay that’s that’s that’s good you better Fellowship. Was trying to give us a Segway into an article the church.

Josie:
[9:34] Oh oh the inclusion but oh yeah.

Geoff:
[9:37] How can we create a culture of inclusion a church I love I love all these will blog post the churches doing sometimes they have an author sometimes they don’t,
just kind of seems scattershot every now and then it just kind of publish a new blog about this or that.

Josie:
[9:50] Yeah I was wondering if this was going to be a new regular thing but I’m not too sure anymore.

Geoff:
[9:55] Are they seem to be publishing a quite a number I think we even have one of our writers,
Geoff borders who does the cover files over at our website this week and Mormons. Com recently had an article published in the end sign so,
that can mean it’s been processed actually is a brief aside years ago one of my aunts also had something published in the end this is a 15 + years ago probably and sheets admit it though like 10 years prior to that,
they just sit on stuff for a long time until they need it then they edit it heavily this was a long time ago though,
namely to remove most stuff about like adversity or like the negative side of stuff the real life implications of difficult experiences that one might have,
feel like today they might Embrace that a little bit more and be more real but she cracked up cuz she was like they took out like all the hardship stuff that I talked about,
cuz it wasn’t you know just like positive spin Happy Times not very Church Circa get out 2004 2005 so doesn’t surprise me anyway.

Josie:
[10:59] Makes me cringe.

Geoff:
[11:01] But so.

Josie:
[11:03] Be more inclusive at church.

Geoff:
[11:06] We see a good example of course in the Savior I think it’s a good reminder that the Savior was very inclusive in or the biggest examples with the Samaritans and,
just in general I mean how many times did Hugh Samaritans to teach the Jews something,
and I don’t know if everyone listening knows the history of the Samaritans like why they were always at odds with the Jews,
I can explain it briefly but essentially they share a common roots and then some
10-day the split sort of doctrinally they have different holy sites for the share a lot of original stuff so Samaritans kind of regard the Jews Heretics that strayed from the true or faith
and the same juice to Samaritan so there was a lot of bad blood there because they felt like both of them were sort of Heretics from the true faith and that’s why they essentially by the,
really hated each other so much and that’s also why the savior of course use them as an example so often because there was no more potent example than the ones that I thought were busy with the most wicked neighbors they had,
to show to humanize you know thine enemy and not show who we should love so I like some of these they have signs that someone is feeling excluded here’s the thing.

Josie:
[12:14] These are my favorite this is the best part of this whole block.

Geoff:
[12:18] Okay closed body language such as arms folded tightly or eyes downcast,
sitting in the back of the room or sitting alone not attending church or attending a regularly will yes leaving meetings or activities early and not participating in conversations or lessons Josie why are these your favorite.

Josie:
[12:37] Cuz I really guilty of most of these and I just made it on the badminton team I feel like the best but no.

Geoff:
[12:50] We are a bit of an injury or bit of an introvert.

Josie:
[12:52] Yeah yeah which is why I’m like if I’m sitting alone it’s because I want to be alone and I need a moment if I wanted to sit by somebody and go sit by somebody so I know I think my biggest,
how do I say issue but maybe you concerned with this is more of the looking around and trying to see how is someone having a hard time it is more of the kind of,
guessing or seeming how a person may feel instead of like maybe just going to
talking to them which I think is kind of perpetrating this behavior that I thought we were trying to move on from in the church,
I’ve not just assuming but or judging quote on quote cuz everyone is all about not judging each other now but,
yeah just actually trying to go in and having a conversation to assess how that person may feel.

Geoff:
[13:52] Yeah I like some of the tips they have.

Josie:
[13:55] Yeah that’s what I thought the tips were good I just thought that the how to spot someone who feels excluded was kind of hilarious.

Geoff:
[14:03] Always have to be big care of y’all be careful by think there’s nothing wrong to just sit by somebody and try to chat him up and they don’t want to talk much like.

Josie:
[14:12] Let It Go,
but ways to be inclusive is good.

Geoff:
[14:18] Yeah the first recommendation one that I think many of us struggle with don’t always sit by the same people
in church I have been admonished many times in one Council settings would buyer by leadership same look you’re the ward council don’t just kind of do your thing like I’m counting on you was the ward council to get out there and sit with people you don’t know and get to know people,
and of course I I mean I mostly feel this price cuz I got young Kids 2 and big guy spend all the sacrament meeting just trying to
Corral them and keep them from escaping and causing trouble and why would I want to put that some poor unsuspecting Soul who just wants to come to church and is trying to,
feel the spirit listen to talk all those things I don’t do anymore.

Josie:
[15:01] Maybe they’d love it.

Geoff:
[15:02] They might they might I mean people do love kids but,
I don’t know at the same time for me I have a hard time to send like hey we don’t know that person let’s sit by them and then subject them to the craziness of our children for an hour.

Josie:
[15:15] Oh I think but that’s a fair point but I feel like I I would use,
this advice and maybe a different setting maybe not necessarily like where you sit with them in Sacramento,
when you get a priesthood or if you’re at a ward activity like i r ward has been newly reorganized and we had a Relief Society activity and I made myself
go and sit at a table of just,
Singaporean women instead of like there is usually more of like they’re there still a little bit of expats are clustering together singaporeans are kind of clustering together and I want to meet and mingle with both and size kind of,
you know trying to be a trendsetter here and sat at their table but it was good in the sense that like I initially was like,
I I had to admit I I know none of your names so it can we still chat and have a conversation and I think I had a better time than if I just sat with,
the usual friends of oh hey how is your week because I spoke to you 2 days ago we don’t have as much to have a conversation about butt,
and it wasn’t something that was natural to me as you say I’m an introvert so for me I wouldn’t normally just go a group of people I don’t know I’m going to go put myself in the middle of that but I think it is important.

Geoff:
[16:39] That’s a good reminder to to not be ashamed to be in being honest like I think we are toward for so long you feel like in any situation like you should know who people are,
I can be potentially embarrassing to destroy website we’ve never talked I don’t actually know you even though I’ve probably seen you here for nine months and we don’t talk so let’s talk.

Josie:
[17:00] Bulls.

Geoff:
[17:01] I think that’s I think it for extra verse that can be a weird thing to do it so I commend you for that mean it’s hard to just got to admit I don’t actually know you like I should let’s fix that and actually know it.

Josie:
[17:12] Well so I have a bit of a theory which is you know that usual is somebody that usual way of starting to talk of somebody moves into the award and a couple is giving a talk and they spend like the first five minutes or so introducing themselves and,
I think it’s nice but then I’ve also found myself feeling like oh well I already know them somehow because they’ve just introduced themselves and then I don’t go and talk to them because I assume I know their story so I’ve,
I’ve already kind of thought to myself I cannot going to do that because I would rather for someone to go and try and ask me,
you know and that’s at least there’s a little bit more of that mystery more opportunities to maybe start a conversation if you don’t feel like,
you already know oh,
you moved here from some other place and you know you have three kids or whatever it may be and you tell a funny story about your relationship like I just rather have those conversations on more of a person-to-person basis.

Geoff:
[18:16] That’s another great thought I actually remember.

Josie:
[18:19] I’m here for that.

Geoff:
[18:20] When we were when we were newlyweds and I don’t know if this yielded results it was more cuz of a Time issue my wife and I were both speaking and so rather than do the big spiel,
actually kind of cracked us up for some reason they switch the order which I think was a great thing usually more often than not in my experience when a husband and wife were invited to speak in their new to award,
they ask the wife to go first the husband is the closer usually almost
always happens that way forever reason I just flipped it around on us we expected the norm so I was the first speaker and that was kind of funny cuz I got two so I was like the one to introduce our family didn’t Danielle and I talked about how to do it,
we’re new here where is Lee from California we didn’t meet there if you want to know us better just talk to us after the meeting,
didn’t waste a lot of time I mean I’m not saying we made friends because of that but it was so out of the norm that perhaps it changed everything right but I think it was more cracking us up,
Danielle was all ready to do the Spiel our whole family and how we met and I wasn’t at all I was like okay well here we are.

[19:24] So this is a great piece in general we can spend forever on it a couple two other ones out that jumped out to me don’t withhold friendship just because someone doesn’t meet your expectations and I think that’s also very easy to do you go in and you see I owe this person going to be one of my people,
let’s get to know that man that if it doesn’t quite go that way you’re like the last one,
take time to think about what it really means when we say the church is for everyone no matter their difference is I think that’s a huge one.

[19:52] Especially in Pockets where the church is a bit more,
ostensibly homogeneous I guess we would say or least culturally you know I’m saying.

Josie:
[20:03] That was going to say Utah.

Geoff:
[20:05] Play Somewhere it has a dominant role in things I can be a little bit more difficult there we have to be inclusive we have to make room for everyone in their point of view,
and especially not like that it down I mean if you’re in gospel Sunday school and someone asks a difficult question,
about a certain topic and you’re a teacher or your comment or don’t just you know offer up the usual listen to the brother in fall in line like take the time to acknowledge that we have different points of view and different life experiences not especially true for some conference who might be,
struggling or or nail takes a lot more to internalize everything they learn about the gospel,
either way it’s a good pizza I mean I know we have to move on from it I don’t know if anything else you would like to add.

Josie:
[20:49] I have something slightly adjacent to that which is a quick journalism call-outs that I have done on some social media as well,
I am brainstorming how to define Mormon culture and so if anyone has thoughts or opinions you can message me probably what’s that or not what’s up,
Instagram or Twitter
would probably be the best option so please send me your thoughts and ideas and I’m only mentioning it connected to this one because
inclusion judgement criticism usually seems to be a theme that is coming up but I will pose this question which is,
that is human nature in any sort of community so how is our church different that’s what I want to know,
if anyone has burning thoughts or opinions please please get in touch okay.

Geoff:
[21:42] I like I like the sound of that could be another one of your podcast series.

Josie:
[21:45] I mean maybe I don’t know I might picture to someone who might pay me Jeff I’ll be out so we’ll see was there really.

Geoff:
[21:52] Pay you if you get lots of Iowa sure.

Josie:
[21:56] Oh my gosh okay we’ll negotiate later.

Geoff:
[21:59] I mean I’ll give you like $12 us what does that get you in Singapore some french fries boom.

Josie:
[22:04] Maybe not even I can probably get chicken rice that’s cheaper than french fries.

Geoff:
[22:10] There you go look at me I’m a purveyor and a provider of chicken rice pick up generous I am.

Josie:
[22:16] Man moving on okay I’m going to do a quick International mention if that’s cool with you.

Geoff:
[22:21] All right.

Josie:
[22:23] So this is a little bit of a slow news week but here we go. So
we have that some updates of the church is growing crazily and Mozambique so the mission president is estimating that three new states will be created within a year I mean,
how many new converts would that have to be.

Geoff:
[22:46] Steak and most cases of steak is roughly 2,000 like active,
Saints and a certain number of a certain number of active priesthood holders you can have a bunch of that you can have 6,000 active Saints but if it’s 90% women then you know he was still a mistake.

Josie:
[23:06] Interesting.

Geoff:
[23:08] Did you have to have enough priesthood to have like the leadership in the stake leadership and blah blah blah blah blah you can’t do.

Josie:
[23:13] Well hopefully good things will continue it and Mozambique and they’re planning Temple trips and,
of the like I’m and then also in Africa this is just like a boundary seen the areas are being divided so there’s there’s a fun little map I’m including this mostly because there was a map which was that
Africa is kind of divided into you have Middle East and North Africa obviously the top and then West Africa and then the majority of the continent has just been kind of grouped together in this Southeast area and that’s.

Geoff:
[23:46] Healthiest Which Wich for reference art if I can interject so anyone who knows African geography basically following the border of so including Sudan,
and Swinging down on the border with Chad Central African Republic and its wings up in as Cameroon so the Border basically is Egypt up north and Olivia and then Nigeria and Chad,
is Cher a part of Africa West everything else as you said it’s been Africa Southeast but yeah.

Josie:
[24:10] Southeast but now I don’t know maybe Parts up because of Mozambique is booming they’re dividing it into Central and Southern areas so good for them is this is is this a sign of it being like
dress like we need to divide the area or were they just not really sure what to do with combo.

Geoff:
[24:31] No it looks like no boat both Guelph right now both both Congo is both the Congo brazzaville and Congo Kinshasa are,
in Africa Southeast it’s typically a good sign of growth because it means that they need to be able to localize leadership and even oversight,
if you want to say that,
a lot better and right now I don’t think we have much Church in Sudan for example or in Eritrea or in some Somali or any of those places but it’s a good chance to,
change the focus and more,
cutter to make sense I’ll be like like the opposite side of it for example Europe used to have Europe West Europe Central Europe East then they dissolved,
they combined Central and East and just made that called that you’re up and I think now if I’m not mistaken I think all of Europe is just one area now because it sucks,
not going gangbusters there what does surprise me the Africa West hasn’t split because while there’s a lot of work.

Josie:
[25:27] Yeah.

Geoff:
[25:29] And Mozambique and they have announced temples though of course in Kenya and in Zimbabwe and they just dedicated the temple in in the DRC let me know what’s happening on those fronts are going to dedicate the Temple of Durban,
I really soon such great so shows a lot growth of the same time West Africa new Temple in the second temple Nigeria the Temple of cooked steaks right and left,
all in Western Africa to so Africa is the future.

Josie:
[25:55] And a quick one as long as we’re talking about boundaries Mongolia has been
also apparently growing may be enough to Warrant this mention apparently and included into the north Asia region which makes me wonder and I haven’t been able to find it where were they before.

Geoff:
[26:12] It said before they were just in the Asia region.

Josie:
[26:14] Okay alright so they get a little bit more specialization cuz I think that loves them in with like Japan and Korea as well if I’m not mistaken.

Geoff:
[26:25] I would look up some more right now but for some reason the venerable website Kimora. Cam is down which is very sick.

Josie:
[26:34] Well you work on that I’m going to I’m going to continue because.

Geoff:
[26:38] Mongolia had like two sticks.

Josie:
[26:40] Oh yeah yeah yeah two steaks goodonya Mongolia,
this one I want to mention real quick because I thought it was interesting given where it’s at a YSA convention maybe isn’t too big a news but they hosted one in Venezuela,
and the past couple of weeks which if you are following the news on Venezuela you would think that life has not really continued,
as

Geoff:
[27:10] Life has no.

Josie:
[27:11] It does seem that way though you just kind of imagined that the entire country is falling apart and so why would you continue with a Y SE convention but they look happy so.

Geoff:
[27:24] If you don’t have a care in the world they’re so happy everything everything’s come.

Josie:
[27:27] They had some really good like little quotes about you no striving through hardship and things like that and I’ll just felt very poignant and then also there was the first Youth Conference held in Indonesia,
first one ever.

Geoff:
[27:43] Indonesia and Malaysia actually have a lot more Church growth than you might one might assume it’s just because the majority Muslim countries.

Josie:
[27:54] Yes especially since you can’t exactly well you can even proselyte but there there’s still as he say because it’s a Muslim country very strict,
regulations on who you can approach and if you can teach just because of the you know a very big difference between.

Geoff:
[28:13] Is that an I mean is that in both of y’all be so you guys will have you know a bridge away from Malaysia I don’t know how it is there versus into Indonesian.

Josie:
[28:19] I am from speaking Yeah I don’t actually know as much for Indonesia but just because Singapore is included in,
the Malaysia Mission as well so our missionaries are usually like quite regularly every couple of weeks jumping across the border to different
are two different cities or towns or villages in Malaysia as well so they’re coming back and forth quite a lot and my understanding is that,
yeah they just need to be a little bit more careful about who who they’re speaking to their usually tracks and four other Christians not Muslims so,
yeah yeah and,
I don’t know if you knew about this one Jeff I didn’t find much news about it but Prince autopsy hopefully I will.

Geoff:
[29:17] I did not know he visited you tell but I believe he’s the one who joined the church a couple of years ago.

Josie:
[29:19] Corrects.

Geoff:
[29:22] The thing is he had quite the journey he was going to get baptized even two years prior and his father the king actually sent armed guards to the church meeting house to stop his baptism from happening.

Josie:
[29:34] Yeah well he went to Utah for some Alumni Association celebrate.

Geoff:
[29:41] The liahona alumni.

Josie:
[29:42] Yeah met with the mayor of Provo not really sure what was going on there but hey cool.

Geoff:
[29:50] Well he was a special guest at the liahona Alumni Association Utah County Event at Provo High School.

Josie:
[29:58] OHA I mean maybe cuz there’s quite a few people from Tonga who go to BYU I don’t know I’m not really sure if there was any sort of policy or maybe was relationship-building will put it in that category.

Geoff:
[30:11] Probably a lot of ntonga is the most LDS country on Earth.

Josie:
[30:15] Yes that’s correct.

Geoff:
[30:16] What’s 70% Latter Day Saint all active course.

Josie:
[30:19] Is this idea I thought it was like 60 ish but yeah you’re probably right.

Geoff:
[30:22] Perlick 67 I rounded up alright Sumi Josie I just rounded.

Josie:
[30:27] All right look at the statistician that on the on all right,
two other quick ones and then we can move on to more Utah stuff for the Utah fan.

Geoff:
[30:37] No I like this more than you toss.

Josie:
[30:39] Good me too I’m hoping that will get other listeners in places like I don’t know Hong Kong or Korea that will reach out to me with actual news that would be amazing so,
treat me people so there’s a new family history Center that’s opened in downtown Paris of the,
cool that we actually got something to downtown Paris and my personal favorite this is the best story to come out of New Zealand and like the past couple years,
there’s a congregation who got a view of a rare white Heron from their Chapel on Sunday
apparently there’s only like 200 of these birds but they there was like a whole press release for this and a video.

Geoff:
[31:21] There’s if I’m going to watch the videos 28 seconds long.

Josie:
[31:23] It’s so great because they say just the Kiwi accent is delightful it’s a hearing.

Geoff:
[31:29] Good Hendrix rare white Heron siding it’s like.

Josie:
[31:35] Anyways so someone some way.

Geoff:
[31:37] Go to this video the video is literally the sky was like a ward member.

Josie:
[31:41] Yeah yeah and he’s like all so great.

Geoff:
[31:43] He’s it shows him standing in front of the church building and you just said yeah we saw this bed and his gestures of his over there on the wall.

Josie:
[31:53] Eminem flew away but they got two pictures of it are quite grainy and so great,
apparently there’s only two hundred of the birds and so they were all thrilled and I love you excited reactions look like I’ve lived here all my life never seen one of these until now and it just showed up.

Geoff:
[32:12] This seems delightfully New Zealand this is very kiwi is it.

Josie:
[32:15] It’s so great anyways once again.

Geoff:
[32:21] No no no it’s not because I’m going to take a shower.

Josie:
[32:23] The Heron was worth it.

Geoff:
[32:24] Now we are going to go to your home state the land of he’ll notice Arizona.

Josie:
[32:28] What what is E2 why is why do you hate it so much I thought we were bonding over things like or dislike of track and now this is the worst.

Geoff:
[32:39] Shrek is very silly it’s true because Arizona is the worst and everyone knows this I don’t even know why you disagree with me is the only good part of Arizona is shown below everyone.

Josie:
[32:50] What.

Geoff:
[32:51] Obviously so because name is showlow which is good for something so there’s no Arizona.

Josie:
[32:57] Is that it.

Geoff:
[33:00] No I have not the farthest.

Josie:
[33:01] Yeah here we go all right proceed with your sister.

Geoff:
[33:03] Flagstaff movie times that I’ve been I’ve been east of Flagstaff to the giant meteor crater you know the meteor crater.

Josie:
[33:08] Yes.

Geoff:
[33:09] Yeah it’s amazing oh my goodness it’s so big.

Josie:
[33:13] Okay alright I’ll save this for later.

Geoff:
[33:14] But I’ve been to like Sedona I’ve been that way I’ve never been to North East Arizona that quadrant I haven’t actually,
Winslow anyway so there’s an Arizona state senator okay named Sylvia Allen she’s a Latter-Day Saint and and she,
she got into some trouble,
I’m assuming she’s Latter Day Saint cuz she was speaking at an event for Mormon political Pioneers at the Arizona Republican party headquarters in Phoenix a couple of weeks ago.

Josie:
[33:48] That mean yeah those are some strong signs but I’m not I wouldn’t quote quote us on that we don’t know.

Geoff:
[33:54] I’m pretty sure she is I mean what would she come on anyway she got into some hot water for saying that,
we had to be careful about the quote Browning of America and quote we’re going to look like South American countries very,
and she’s trying to backpedal from this.

Josie:
[34:16] The backpedal was the worst so she,
what should you eat this whole apology saying that you know is the classic like I’ve always supported immigration I still support it now illegal immigration and hitting on those points which was that was to be expected,
but then tries to cover up the fact that she it wasn’t that they’re Browning countries it’s that those countries are,
or made brain socialist practices that was her apology that was her excuse of why she dislikes,
looking like South American countries that I’m thinking or if we had a flood of blonde hair blue eyes Scandinavians coming through somehow I don’t think the complaint would be the same just a thought.

Geoff:
[35:06] I might agree that exactly she represents district 6 which is she lives in Snowflake so kind of close to Show Low.

Josie:
[35:10] Snowflake.

Geoff:
[35:15] Yeah this is there’s no really good there’s no real good way to spin this other than just saying you were wrong and I mean music you can,
you can’t say.

Josie:
[35:29] And also.

Geoff:
[35:31] Assimilate.

Josie:
[35:32] Great apology that’s not quite an apology.

Geoff:
[35:36] And then trying to like Stoke fears of socialism and communism out of Latin America is a very 1950s 1960s American foreign policy kind of thing,
that’s that’s,
we’ve topple governments because we were so deathly afraid of them becoming Reds this happened quite a bit and this is why Latin America hates us today for the most part we have bad form policy there,
Beaverson have a lot of influence in Latin America even though we want to like run Latin America that’s a whole other thing basically,
but don’t worry we had our guy pinout yet he was great love him.

Josie:
[36:13] Oh dear this is a.

Geoff:
[36:15] Anyway bad on you woman bad on you you should resign.

Josie:
[36:18] Yeah Shame Shame.

Geoff:
[36:20] To shame one more political one then real quick since we’re sort of on that topic KUTV decided to run a piece it’s actually
their parenting a piece from 5:38 fivethirtyeight.com is a site specializes in prognostication statistics usually of the political variety and it’s very well-researched a very interesting I would say for the most part 5:30,
a good website so the article is how different will the Electoral Electoral College look at Deseret the territory of Deseret had become a state in 1849,
those notable church history will know that the land claimed as Deseret for the state of Deseret by the settlers was show me say gargantuan,
and Brigham Young basically laid claim to land stretching from Utah down to Arizona through all of Nevada and parts of all the way down to Los Angeles and San Diego it was a.

[37:17] The US government of course didn’t really play yeah they don’t really play ball at this but it’s kind of funny to see the math,
being run on this it’s arguing that if it was just basically taking today’s demographics toast to say nothing about the cities with develop differently and stuff if it was all run by you know Mormon settlers if you took happy birthday and put him in his boundaries
you’d get have 32 million people and 44 electoral votes in the state of Deseret,
because Los Angeles would be in its I mean yeah duh come on buses going to happen not ever.

Josie:
[37:54] Changed Hollywood sorry I’m more interested in that not the election.

Geoff:
[37:59] Could you imagine if Los Angeles were just there and get the capital of Southern California with Salt Lake City.

Josie:
[38:06] Oh my gosh.

Geoff:
[38:09] We be living it will not last long I’ve got a pretty bad feeling that we get split up.

Josie:
[38:13] I’m sure there must be some like there must be some fiction written about this somewhere as if Deseret was actually saying you know some counterfactual book there must be.

Geoff:
[38:26] Why don’t you write this you can do what you’re looking to get paid for what you do for some reason perhaps you should contact share.

Josie:
[38:31] I am as a journalist not as a fiction writer right now.

Geoff:
[38:37] I’ll bet you listen it’s got to be some kind of dystopian think that’s what the all the kids love write it for you.

Josie:
[38:41] That’s what they love.

Geoff:
[38:43] For young adults and it can be all about,
weird politics of the area the sad thing is of course the Mormons claimed a bunch of land for Deseret and the FEDS,
methodically paired that back into the boundaries of Utah today if you’ve ever read the book how the states got their shapes,
it’s it really easy read but it’s you learn about how every state in the United States,
is shaped the way it is. There’s a reason behind everything and you know most States out west or a lot more just boxing
you thought I had a lot more land even in the territory of Utah and the FEDS just got a very deliberately to rain in the Mormons wanted to strip them of Natural Resources so they took the gold that’s now in Colorado
cut off that part given Colorado when silver was basically discovered in what is now Nevada they just kind of changed those boundaries so they they,
deliberately were trying to prevent the Mormon.

Josie:
[39:33] Slimming the state down.

Geoff:
[39:35] Yeah that has I mean they’re still a big mining presence in Utah but yeah they went through a lot.

Josie:
[39:44] Well I’m going to give a quick mention for those who remember any of the news about Sam young who was previously excommunicated for,
he was the one who was protesting for,
kids not being interviewed Alone by Bishop Briggs members correct okay so now he’s doing or he’s announced the,
First National march to Against Child Abuse is this 1st March,
I’m in fact checks that one but he’s organizing a protest walk pretty much in Salt Lake and about that I think specifically child abuse in,
Church’s Chicken King dad there.

Geoff:
[40:33] No it’s just that I think it’s unfortunate Sam young I think it’s unfortunate he was excommunicated for this in the first place we seen and we seen a recent history of central trying to pressure or,
a shame the church into certain courses of action even if it does undertake them in the end that’s just how it has modified his policies for youth interviews,
still doing it that way doesn’t usually end well I’m able to remember ordain women and kick Kelly there’s nothing wrong with pursuing that cause,
the way they went about it I think cuz problem solving Sam young did anything at the level of Kate Kelly as far as being belligerent,
but he also would not without back off and that’s this is kind of what when’s it happening so I’m all for the cause in general I mean I think it’s fine I’m glad I’m glad the church has,
open up about that inside look just look if you want parents to be there in your youth interviews fine do it I do think it’s a little bit goofy because now they had that survey a couple of weeks ago asking about.

Josie:
[41:31] The survey was strange.

Geoff:
[41:34] Interviews for eight-year-olds which was either tone-deaf or more actual like a reaction and a work-in-progress based on these other issues we just don’t see the whole picture yet I’m not quite sure so good for sale.

Josie:
[41:48] Prefers them all right your turn.

Geoff:
[41:51] Okay interesting,
article here over at ladder get ladder gay stories. Org okay so the whole podcast platter gay stories which talks about Latter Day Saints who are gay this one though it has taken off a bit more it’s called coming out
I am currently a stake president so he says,
you know he’s struggled with all this okay but he says you know I’m 57 years old I’m married to a woman I’m currently stake president and I know myself to be completely and intrinsically gay,
disciplined excommunicated and personally distance myself from men who share the same attraction and feelings I have not always because they deserved it but because I didn’t want to admit to myself,
did they were doing the very thing I would also do that’s just one paragraph in what is a very interesting read cuz you Hero Of course a lot about,
LGBT Latter Day Saints trying to work through that and the church at a higher level trying to understand how to navigate those issues and,
and what to teach its people but you don’t read a lot of current stake presidents,
saying yeah I’m gay too and of course it says coming out but he this is still written anonymously as far as you know he hasn’t even never told his wife or anything there’s no mention of kids in the article but,
so it’s not even coming out for fear of course what this could all mean cuz it’s someone who loves to church but of course also.

[43:20] Struggles with this I mean here’s this there’s one anecdote in it,
where he says where was this grieving family recently a couple came to my office and shared with me that their daughter privately came out to them as a lesbian
encourage her to remain silent until she was away from the home and away from her Ward Community her parents experiencing some of the same feelings I feel right now are befallen by shame they do not want
people in the community and particularly their Ward Family to think less of them they do not want to be labeled spoken ill of or negated
and as a sacrifice for the comfort of the parents they’re willing to let their daughter collapse on their altar of Pride instead of allowing her the opportunity to grow they feel like
to protect their own image,
this is what we become as members of the Church of Jesus Christ that this is our first motivation how much longer must we fall to lose sight of the Redeemer who promises to make us whole,
bye bye to the screaming family was to honor the beauty of their daughters creation and adore her adore her with the full just love,
and I encourage others to do great things of course they just says like I was beside myself when I left my office I couldn’t even take my next appointments I had my clerk cancel all of them and I just wept in my office basically trying to figure this out we talked a lot about inclusion,
earlier in the podcast.

Josie:
[44:33] Yeah and this is a big one I think.

Geoff:
[44:37] This is a big one it’s it’s tough though cuz what I mean I know we say,
you can be gay in the church but if this sick president were to come out like come out come out and announce himself as gay even if he says like I’m gay I’m not going to,
go pursue those sorts of things but I’m gay and I’m still going to be with my wife or whatever it may be like officially on paper that’s okay but I have to wonder if you’d get released you know I hate to think that,
the Wonders I would have.

Josie:
[45:05] So there’s no there’s no red like do we have regulations on that I got a hope not because to me I feel like that.

Geoff:
[45:16] What you you can be gay and don’t.

Josie:
[45:18] Change my opinion of my stake president I would just feel like he probably feels a lot better having got that off his chest,
I I I don’t see why it should suddenly make him any less worthy to fulfill that calling.

Geoff:
[45:39] I wasn’t shouldn’t I mean you be less worthy to fulfill the calling you if like anything else you came out and then broke your temple covenants and we’re not in a worthy to serve in whichever way that might be where that’s you had an affair on your wife for,
any number of things or you decide to pursue a sexual relationship.

Josie:
[45:58] So then the concern seems to be more about how you’d be perceived yet which is actually one of the things that I’ve been trying to think about a lot once again with my cultural call out which is like how how do we,
I have a space for lgbtq Community when we say,
that we’re going to be all inclusive but are those who have spoken to feel like the actions don’t quite match up,
is this one of those situations where you really really want to feel like everyone would just accept the State president if you were to come out but,
I also kind of feel like I I wouldn’t be surprised if there were actions as a repercussion.

Geoff:
[46:52] I mean it’s hard to it’s hard to see how there wouldn’t be even if there shouldn’t be I mean there’s no reason not to write any of you could come out and if he’s like I’m still faithful to my wife and
imagine if you were to come out and say I am gay and while I’m not going to like break the rules and there’s no reason for me to be married anymore and now it’s solely because sick presents or just supposed to be married,
that’s one of those rules like a bishop you don’t have single state presidents were single Bishops by rule essentially but that wouldn’t be like,
you know it’s just a minute straight of.

Josie:
[47:26] Yeah more than any scene reading the his piece just makes you sad really is more just because it reads like,
he’s calling for help,
so many again so many people that I spoke into who have quite a few who has since left the church because they’ve also struggled with being gay or whatever maybe be and just
the feeling of absolute loneliness and isolation that they,
all describe that’s that’s a concern to me and that’s not something that you can find if guess as if they’re,
you know as the previous article suggests like if they’re just sitting in the back of a room with their arms,
tightly folded and their eyes downcast like you’re not going to know what’s really going on and maybe you don’t need to but how can we be like genuinely more inclusive of someone who,
isn’t ready to or isn’t able to fully come out,
I don’t know the answer to that one yet but I’m trying to figure that out so.

Geoff:
[48:38] Yeah me neither I know it’s such an interesting piece made me think a lot more because you hear the stories of people coming out but you don’t usually hear it from from that it’s very easy to assume like yeah but you like you know not of the church leadership like that is gay right it’s,
other people.

Josie:
[48:53] But of course they must be.

Geoff:
[48:56] What were the redistricting, to the bottom to just as part of the the article worth the worth spending some time well if you want to hit on this week Josie.

Josie:
[49:06] Apparel,
there’s a new church book on Church finances and also a piece that has been republished I think again about who the scandal of how are,
leadership our church leadership was specifically the general authorities get a living stipend so those two I feel like I barely connected I’m not really sure why that’s the Scandal,
give me just like to say that we don’t have a paid clergy except for the general authorities.

Geoff:
[49:41] It’s also because some people think that the the general authorities especially the 12 the brother in it received far more than,
like a simple stipend based on something to have leaked out in the past but was not clear as well as far as what week. It’s like is this actually they’re living stipend or is this or their operational budget for their little Silo like within the.

Josie:
[50:02] You know they get bonuses at the ends Christmas bonus.

Geoff:
[50:04] Well done great job they’re quitting you really hustled those the tithing this year.

Josie:
[50:11] You dedicated the temple twenty-grand here you go.

Geoff:
[50:16] Suarez is stoked like I did my first.

Josie:
[50:18] Yes.

Geoff:
[50:21] Terrible we’re going to get struck by lightning shame on us.

Josie:
[50:23] You know it’s true. Just.

Geoff:
[50:27] I think the budget thing is that there are many who gets tickets they perhaps get more than they should I do I will say some of Daniel Peterson’s logic I don’t totally subscribe to I don’t have a big issue with like the financial stuff in the church at all but.

Josie:
[50:41] Yeah I think that’s why I’m making fun of it I don’t really have.

Geoff:
[50:44] But what he does say is these men in the private sector would make substantially more money than they do doing this for the church,
that’s true that like that’s true and they would I mean the weather is a lot of people who experienced professionals and presumably before they were called the full-time church service made a lot more money but,
but that doesn’t,
this if what they are receiving from the church would be exorbitant that is insulting justify that I’m not saying that is the case but you can’t just say they would make way more money here it’s like whataboutism almost your single who cares if they’re making too much. They make even more outside of the church
all that matters is what they’re actually doing I do love the picture he has and I think it’s present Kimball’s house,
in Salt Lake City which is at this little like Salt Lake cottage and he’s like behold the Kimball mansion.

Josie:
[51:32] Single story.

Geoff:
[51:37] That’s a funny thing I mean I know present Hinckley lived in the apartment instead of President Monson don’t know if they always occupy that I don’t think they do but the brother live kind of far and wide I believe the Elder Packard live,
he still looked up like Brigham City,
the whole time and I had a buddy lived in North Salt Lake or Bountiful I think Albert Perry was like lived up there and their War they don’t know they’re not all like chilling in some cool Church compound in Salt Lake City they’re just going to do,
as far as the church finances when it’s actually a review of 46 years of research by Michael Quinn who is a famed Mormon historian will form a part of the,
wakanda Mormon history.

Josie:
[52:19] So if that’s your jam he’s got a book out.

Geoff:
[52:23] Yeah I guess you should read it he’s Michael Quinn famous cuz he’s a member of the fabled September 6th if you’re familiar,
so back in the early 90s 1993 and about a matter of a weekend or so a number of critics and what are feminists the type of,
for lack of a better way to say at John delynn types I hate to say it that way but that might take a picture of you okay,
six of that six of them were excommunicated in quick succession and so the Salt Lake Tribune dubbed it the September 6th that’s sort of the,
that’s the term that’s the name for that episode the sort of stuck and so up like a coin was one of the,
and he still considers himself a letter to say he’s he’s gay and but he still like believes unit there are people who are far more knowledgeable about all of that then,
well everyone let’s all be well and do good things I would like to spend some time right now and thank Josie for putting up with how many times we have to do the show together,
and don’t forget thanks also for having a husband upon whom I have a man crush.

Josie:
[53:40] Fingers crossed.

Geoff:
[53:43] Jeremy Jeremy you are.

Josie:
[53:46] He’s a good looking man.

Geoff:
[53:47] You’re just a beautiful human Jeremy you’re a little short for me but otherwise.

Josie:
[53:52] NSAIDs a little short for me as well but that’s okay,
deer yeah there’s not much we can do for that.

Geoff:
[53:59] Well you know what can we do so I know how you do to encourage people to contact you if with various points in this episode want to drop those again.

Josie:
[54:09] Yes please so talk to me about Mormon culture do not complain to me about something that your State president said to you I’ve had enough of those unless it is relatable to Mormon culture but yet please I’m on Instagram
Twitter you can DM me Josie cleave.

Geoff:
[54:26] Gleave gleave.

Josie:
[54:29] Yeah V as in Victor as we like to say over the phone yeah that’s us.

Geoff:
[54:34] Good deal good deal if not a patron on patreon you should do that vine this weekend was on patreon and pledged a buck a month I will keep asking until I make thousands of dollars every week or month.

Josie:
[54:46] Until you get your own Skype in and Christmas bonus.

Geoff:
[54:49] I want my own Skype into my old mansion I want to live in The Avenues or in the neighborhood named after universities over by the you that’s my goal,
it’s a nice area.

Josie:
[55:00] Have a good plan.

Geoff:
[55:02] So please do that but of course follow us on Facebook at facebook.com this week in Mormons and follow our Instagram and Twitter and all those good things and if you have not subscribed to this podcast app for some reason this is your first time here I say that
like I’m accusing someone of his for some reason your first time here if this is your first time here
well thanks for spending the time with us hit that subscribe button in your podcatcher Apple podcast Google whatever you’re using tile be terrific and write a review,
if you would do that as why do I ask a lot of you but this is free so,
do your part keep the lights on what’s a good text Josie good luck in Singapore.

Josie:
[55:39] Thank you enjoy enjoy we didn’t even talk about your life today Jack but I hope it’s going well.

Geoff:
[55:45] No one cares about my life I deliberately just tell him nothing.

Josie:
[55:47] I care I care.

Geoff:
[55:49] I hung out with Henry Kissinger yesterday with the life.

Josie:
[55:52] What really are you just throwing that in at the last minute to make me curious.

Geoff:
[55:58] Oh by hung out I mean I was in a room with him along with like a thousand other people and I took picture I mean I was.

Josie:
[56:03] But you got a picture.

Geoff:
[56:05] We are not with him just of him.

Josie:
[56:07] Okay next week will leave it on the Cliffhanger there what happened with Jeff and Henry Kissinger.

Geoff:
[56:14] Just me and Henry just talking about how do you know a rogue diplomacy in 1970s party on.

Josie:
[56:20] Fantastic.

Geoff:
[56:21] All right this week in Mormons is over everyone be well be holy and be happy.