We’re thrilled this week to be joined by our friend, Devin Thorpe, progenitor and proprietor of Your Mark on the World. Devin’s mission is, simply (and easily, right?) to make the world a better place. But how? That’s his jam.

Even though the Church has been not exactly forthcoming with details of the new youth program, it has at least announced the theme for the year, which is based on 1 Nephi 3:7 (“I will go and do the things the Lord commands”). On the surface, this seems like a perfectly fine theme, encouraging youth to act on faith in difficult situations, just as Nephi did. But Devin is concerned that it could also lead others to engage in irrational, even violent, behavior, all in the name of God’s commands.

Robert Kirby of the Salt Lake Tribune is officially the paper’s humor columnist (and we’ve spent plenty of time tearing down some of his iffier articles), but this week he makes a more grounded argument: that attacking someone’s religion is the same as attacking their personal traits. It’s not a mere criticism of a faith, but becomes a criticism of the individual.

In an op ed at Religion News Service, a Utah writer discusses at length his belief in the veracity of the Book of Mormon and the divine mission of Joseph Smith, but then stresses that he does not believe in the Church, nor is he advocating for the mission of the Church. Can one be a post-Church Mormon?

A University of Washington student, who clearly has an editor that doesn’t even know how to spell “Christ” – decided to visit an LDS congregation. She writes a column covering her visits to different religious services. She came away with an understanding that Mormons are very tight knit and hospitable.

In other non-believer visits, a humanist decided to hit up the Hill Cumorah Pageant, currently in its penultimate season.

You know how the Book of Mormon mentions horses and then academics argue that the Spanish introduced horses into the Americas, thus creating another in many purported logical, archaeological, and anthropological inconsistencies? Well, researchers specializing in Native American history have discovered evidence of horses in the pre-Colombian era, and those pesky, fake-news academics should take notice!

QuitMormon.com aims to allow departing members of the Church have an easier time submitting a legal memo to the Church to have their records removed. The problem, however, is that the Church requires such forms to be notarized, and it asked QuitMormon to provide that or its submissions will be rendered moot. All of this has curiously transpired a few weeks after we discussed an article on The Verge that explored QuitMormon at length.

New “Come, Follow Me” Resources Make Your Personal Study Even Easier

Some goofy Utah kids, described as “amateur filmmakers” by the Washington Post, are producing a series called 30 Day Bae, in which participants are paired up on dates not just for an evening, but for a month. The idea is that individuals’ relationships will be deeper and potentially better if they don’t write someone off after one date. It’s all stupid.

Mette Harrison, who has made something of a career in complaining about church stuff, writes a guest post on Jana Riess’ column covering 73 “easy” steps to become a Mormon. It’s supposed to be satire, but it’s mostly stupid.

Groundbreaking Announced for the Belém Brazil Temple

Transcript

Geoff:
[0:00] Greetings everyone it’s another episode of this weekend Mormon / Latter Day Saints members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,
I’m your Intrepid host Geoff Openshaw happy to be here you haven’t visited Us online before please go to this week in Mormons., and do so subscribe are podcasts this very one,
on Apple or Google or Spotify or TuneIn or whatever you like to use or Stitcher even and I’m going to put the plug in early,
if you haven’t support us on patreon that’s patreon patreon. Com this week in Mormons,
to go there and punch a buck a month to help us keep the lights on and it would mean the world to nougat special shout outs in a feeling of doing good in the world what more could you want so,
that’s that part happy this week to be joined once again by the indomitable and I would say that word inappropriately.

Devin:
[0:55] It is an honor to join you Geoff it’s a pleasure to be back I look forward to this I’m grateful that my turn came up again.

Geoff:
[1:03] I think Devon is like the nicest person to ever be on.

Devin:
[1:06] That I am sure that is not true but you know I’ve spent 20 years trying to learn not to be a jerk.

Geoff:
[1:15] I feel you’re doing with it.

Devin:
[1:16] I am getting closer I recommitted about 2 years ago.
And the measure of how well I’m doing is that people have started giving me free stuff.
It’s amazing like I’m nice to people like a Taco Time and I think give me dinner for free.

Geoff:
[1:41] That’s because you’re just the first customer that had weeks.

Devin:
[1:43] It’s customer yes that’s probably that but I’ve been thinking that it was because I was nice to them instead of calling them idiots for getting my order wrong
I smile and I’m nice and it seems to work better I don’t know why.

Geoff:
[2:05] I’m pretty sure if if Jesus were here now he would not berate the people of the service industry for messing up an order I’m pretty sure he would be thoughtful and compassionate.

Devin:
[2:17] He would be you know that’s that’s what you know for a Mormon podcast that is a good observation to make thank you for pointing that out.

Geoff:
[2:25] Thank you for living such a life that I’m capable of pointing this out.

Devin:
[2:28] I am of course to be emulated in all ways because I managed to not berate the Taco Time Lady.

Geoff:
[2:37] My goal on this episode is to it to suck up to you so much,
do the entire hour since do you feel extremely awkward by the end.

Devin:
[2:45] It’s a pleasure to be with you gif.

Geoff:
[2:49] I’d like to have you here man life life good what’s going on with you and both professionally personally what’s.

Devin:
[2:55] Since my last visit with you I went to Guatemala and Honduras great
Adventure there did some volunteer work in Guatemala at work done some stories for Forbes and that and iPad that I,
wrote for the Salt Lake Tribune stuff.

Geoff:
[3:17] Are you allowed to talk about the op-ed that’s not yet published.

Devin:
[3:19] Yeah I’m hoping it’ll be out any day the,
the opinion editor has green-lighted it at but he didn’t tell me what it would post so it could be any minute now but yeah so you know that I just made the argument for,
being good to Hondurans in Honduras to slow the flow,
whether you are thinking we should close the border tighter or whether you think we should loosen things up at the border to let in more,
in either case we ought to be agreeing on more Aid more support more help for people.

Geoff:
[3:57] Wait a minute Devin are you actually suggesting that we try to help solve the problem at its root so that we’re not just putting Band-Aids on all the time.

Devin:
[4:06] It’s a crazy ideas yeah that’s why I had to go to that crazy publication Salt Lake Tribune to get a print such a crazy radical idea.

Geoff:
[4:17] You love the Salt Lake Tribune I bet if they became publicly traded you would be the majority shareholder.

Devin:
[4:24] Probably not rich enough to do that.

Geoff:
[4:27] I don’t know I feel like I feel like.

Devin:
[4:29] State of the record that out of business now there are nonprofit so I guess I would.

Geoff:
[4:34] Really their market value has declined quite a bit actually so viton Robin.

Devin:
[4:36] Give me a penny stock I get on a lot of shirts I love your right I do love the solely.

Geoff:
[4:44] No they’re good night I mean Salt Lake Tribune is winning Pulitzer when was the last time the Deseret News did that.

Devin:
[4:49] Thank you know they’re I have one of the very best articles I ever got from any newspaper ever,
in the pantheon of stories was a an article in the Deseret News by a very young just Cub reporter
has since left she went to Cambodia to work on I can’t remember who she’s working for in Cambodia have all the play.

Geoff:
[5:16] The Khmer Rouge.

Devin:
[5:18] I don’t think so but she wrote this spectacular 4000 word.
Obituary for homeless man that was just the maybe the best thing I’ve ever read in a newspaper just phenomenal so I give it to give props where do to the good old days rap news.
But I do find myself chuckling sometimes at their coverage.

Geoff:
[5:47] Yeah I mean.

Devin:
[5:47] They they they take their taking things seriously they try hard and and Kudos when they do.

Geoff:
[5:53] What they are I’m in the media Landscaping Utah’s of course very interesting I went to back in a January,
Deseret News sponsored this evening with elder christofferson and Bob Woodward of Watergate Fame.
Because because people don’t realize that the Elder christofferson was deeply involved in Watergate he clerked for the main judge that oversaw most of the cases
the camp so he was intimately aware of everything going on so it was about a lot of stuff in Essex and Trust in the role of government and the role of the media and all sorts of things are good evening
but I also very much saw it as a huge swing by Deseret News to obtain more National Credit I guess we would say
to my knowledge they haven’t done a ton of things at the scale before they had it at the Newseum in the big Auditorium in a massive Banner it was rolled out everything for this event
and it was a it’s pretty cool listeners might remember when I talked about it before of course I met I met McKay coppins for the first time in McKay coppins is God,
as we all know so.

Devin:
[6:57] I actually went to high school with his parents yes.

Geoff:
[7:01] Really so I’m do you know them well can you get another in because it is difficult is difficult to lock down the McKay.

Devin:
[7:09] I invited him to be on my show and he said yes and then dropped off the radar so my only guess is he said yes before he figured out who I was.

Geoff:
[7:23] Typical McKay nofollow.

Devin:
[7:25] I need to follow up with him now that I’ve had Bill Gates on my show maybe I can convince.

Geoff:
[7:29] That’s a that’s a good feather in your cap right there it’s pretty easy to I mean you should get Jeff Bezos on and see how that goes.

Devin:
[7:37] Yeah he is he’s not really quite the humanitarian that Bill Gates.

Geoff:
[7:42] But he is Devin he has these wonderful facility fulfillment centers that employ people and Bastille to boost the local economy and non-controversial ways.

Devin:
[7:52] There’s no controversy of the Amazon know it’s 86 hempt.

Geoff:
[7:57] None whatsoever but you folks you didn’t tune in to hear about that order tune in to hear Devin and I talked about the Democratic primary or anything along those lines even though we probably could for a whole Solid 2 hours and have a grand time doing it no no,
you are here to hear about Latter-Day Saint relevant news and that is what I want to give all of you and I will lead off with,
the new youth theme,
for 2020 if you’ve been following are General coverage of Youth related items you might remember that just last week or two weeks ago the church teased out a bit more information,
about the the full new youth program in the one for kids it’s just going to just called Children and Youth,
which we joked was an SEO Ploy because the church is taking such an SEO hit.

[8:47] For ditching lds.org that they might as well be very very on the nose without the new programs are called for surgery but anyway we still don’t know all the details are going to be that second hour broadcast on September 29th
that will go over that in Greater detail but we do have a theme and the team
is it like as much a slogan as much as a mission statement I guess but I guess that’s fine for theme so the theme is strictly 1st Nephi 3:7,
and if you’re not familiar with the scripture that is one of the classic Seminary scripture scripture Chase types of cells because
are you supposed to kill Laban to obtain the gold the brass plates,
and he recoils he doesn’t want to do it and but it says it came to pass that I need by 7 to my father I will go on us right this isn’t that part nevermind I don’t know the scriptures.

Devin:
[9:43] Yeah it’s it’s a it is in that context right.

Geoff:
[9:46] Isn’t that kind of this what he said that to his father this one is father’s this one Lehigh commands him to go and get the brass plates and he said
you know I will go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded for I know that the lord giveth no commitment to the children of men save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commanded.

Devin:
[10:05] And you’re right you’re right GIF the Fulfillment of that.
Prophecy if you will is that Laban was presented to Nephi to be murdered to be killed.

Geoff:
[10:23] Alex will you put it there I present you for murder.

Devin:
[10:27] Yes yes please please murder David and.

Geoff:
[10:30] I offer you for tribute.

Devin:
[10:31] And I really don’t have a problem you obviously had he had a problem problem scripture but but you know as we look at scriptures,
we often take them out of context in this is one that we frequently talked to take out of context if you asked if he asked the typical sixteen-year-old the context of this scripture it would not be able to tell you that story,
I think I could be wrong but I think most.

Geoff:
[11:02] Think they’ll know Nephi just obeying his dad and just going to get the what what do you think they wouldn’t it’s a pretty as far as known stories from The Book of Mormon that’s like it’s pretty high but why do you think that.

Devin:
[11:14] But I just don’t I don’t think they draw the connection to the death of late and I’m right and.
It is that connection that does give me pause as we think about young man who are the most frequent perpetrators of mass shooting.
Being told to go and do what the Lord commands even up to and including killing someone.
That’s a scary connection to make in these days until I would not if I were asked my opinion do not use the scripture for youth.
They didn’t ask me. Can you believe that they didn’t ask me.

Geoff:
[12:01] I know why don’t they I mean interview Bill Gates why wouldn’t they.
Well I think that’s an interesting way to look at it I mean I feel like you have to take it to it is an extreme situation in the scriptures when you know that the spirit says do not to Nephi,
like he’s been delivered here to you this what you need to do the Lord is this is this is the means this is the end of the man’s right here or the means to the end.
I don’t know what I mean did you read that there’s like to many troubled young man who are going to see this is that you steam and say I have decided that God told me to go on a killing spree is that kind of power.
Where.

Devin:
[12:42] Yeah that’s good that that’s the thing you say will you know it’s unlikely of course it’s unlikely,
but if one kid with an assault rifle and let’s be clear the Mormon culture overlaps with the gun culture pretty pretty well.
Yeah I think there is a real risk of having having someone.
Out there use this as part of a me,
you know heaven forbid this is in somebody’s Manifesto 6 months from that right they post right before they you know get out there assault rifle.

Geoff:
[13:23] I like to think that anyone knowing that you seem and being onboard like this would not be imbalanced in such a way that this would happen I mean,
I I think it could promote extremism as you say but I also hope that if we teach you the right way and I’ll people would recognize the signs and recognize you know one you’re not receiving real inspiration,
I’m with where you’re coming from Devin but I don’t know if I fully agree that it’s it’s it’s so problematic that it might lead to destruct.

Devin:
[13:56] Yes and clearly smarter people than I agree with you.

Geoff:
[14:02] Yeah well I once went to a meeting at the church office building so ditto.

Devin:
[14:13] Yeah it is it is a very interesting Troy.

Geoff:
[14:15] It’s a it’s trying to teach that obviously the purpose behind it is to give kids faith,
to do the things which the Lord asks which is which is in General on the pot on the more positive affirming side.

Devin:
[14:26] Oh my gosh yes.

Geoff:
[14:27] A tough thing to do increasingly as the years go by
that’s why I fully imagine they are hoping to Scott a double down on that and really teach the kids to have faith to listen to the spirit and even if they don’t understand things to follow those promptings I deal with those problems will be positive
positive outcomes that’s that’s certainly a worthwhile Endeavor I don’t think I don’t think we could say otherwise self-will.

Devin:
[14:53] Hi Greg Nelson.
There is no gospel teaching that I am afraid that the kids will learn it at no legitimate gospel principle that I’m afraid that they will learn it keeps it would bother me it is the extrapolation from that context the concern.

Geoff:
[15:17] Is your turn now Devin you.

Devin:
[15:18] Oh you want me to come up here,
speaking of this you know I think one that’s fun is that came up this week is Robert Kirby at who is Infamous in Mormon Circle said
he sort of commentator columnist funny guy for the Salt Lake Tribune wrote I thought a really profound speak article this week will call him and it came,
was built around.

[15:53] A quote from h l Mencken who said we must respect the other fellows religion,
but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart.
And I thought that was a perfect Point basically what he went on to say what Kirby went on to say in the article is,
in essence we should be kind and our criticisms and critiques of other people’s relationships because we care about them.
And to the extent that we don’t really care what they think about us then we should.
Insult their religion with the same Readiness we might insult their beauty of their wives or the brains of their children which is so we wouldn’t do that,
the it mean that you just wouldn’t do that in polite company I thought it was really.
A good reminder for some people it’s a Kirby insults their religion a lot but.
I think it’s a good good ruler.

Geoff:
[17:05] The one they all share.

Devin:
[17:06] Good rule of thumb at 2 to seek to follow.

Geoff:
[17:11] I think it makes sense I’m not always on the Kirby bandwagon this but this was a bit more thoughtful peace and he’s a humor columnist but I thought this was definitely just a more.
Legitimate piece why would we want I think religion is such a petition intrinsic part of who we are it’s it’s a lot different than insulting,
Mourinho once political views are things that can evolve another religious views can’t evolve but I think they’re more fundamental to who we are and,
and of course as we send out the speaker politics increasingly we become polarized politics and politics are also becoming,
something with which we deeply identify and start to see us and them and all that kind of thing,
headed and we’ve done that it was religion in the past Mankind has not been shy about that by any means but I do think we’re better off by not trying to adopt an us and them mentality,
and instead just have the mentality of us cuz we’re all God’s children even if we have different views of the doctrines and the truth and the things to get there it’s.
Good find.

Devin:
[18:13] Yes yeah I thought it was an interesting piece and it in there are some clever lines in it for those who want to read it.

Geoff:
[18:20] So that’s pretty good I appreciate that,
I was intrigued by this piece that came out over a religious a religion news the religion news service which prime most Latter Day Saints are familiar with likely because of Jenna Reese’s call him on there but they publish all sorts of different things.

[18:39] And their press release service they have published a nice little big man op-ed by John Saunders,
and it’s interesting so it takes a while to get spun up but he clarifies,
early on that he’s not a member of any religious denomination is not a member of our church in particular or any Mormon sects that believe in Joseph Smith he’s not trying to promote the LDS church or any other Latter Day Saints,
set but the gist of it is you going to read is a simply saying the Bible contains truth,
and God owns truth and God is capable of putting truth in other avenues,
and basically pouching for the Book of Mormon as it goes on so I can look The Book of Mormon teaches us good things that are of God put it to the test and you will see that it is of god but what I find very compelling is that he’s a no case making the argument,
to adhere to the church to join the church,
or be a part of it as a sort of trying to go beyond that which isn’t something we do much in our church especially because belief in the Book of Mormon is like the fundamental thing,
what you’re doing is a missionary it’s the big thing with missionary tool that is pray about this cuz if this is true that all the other stuff we’re telling you is true.

[19:57] And the writer is saying well that’s not what I’m here to I’m just here to find good and God where it is but I think it’s very rare I feel like we find those who are admittedly.
Loving the Book of Mormon and believe it is true but do not want to go the distance and believe in Joseph Smith or the church.

Devin:
[20:16] What’s interesting is he seems also to believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet he he seems committed to being independent of religion,
at the same time it seems fully convinced that Joseph Smith taught,
messages that were divine which is really an interesting interesting take.

Geoff:
[20:42] And so I wonder what it is it prevents him from wanting to take the extra step that one normally would.

Devin:
[20:49] I think it comes from something that happened before he got to this point right I think he decided I’m not,
religious I’m spiritual or some other variation of that but I I’m not a joiner but I am a believer I will see Truth where it comes and I think that is really interested.

Geoff:
[21:11] I do I just now we just got to get him to join the church now is area he’s put his phone number up there it’s 435 so he’s in Utah somewhere that’s not the Wasatch Front,
so go to Brigham City or try and find him.
And bring him home it’s got to be very weird being a Latter-Day Saint in and Utah especially if you’re somewhere like in the 435 because those are,
less urban areas and so they’re more heavily LDS I think in general and that must be an extreme Dynamic I imagine if you’re not a Latter-Day Saint,
getting by in Salt Lake City even despite the church’s outside presence is not too big of a deal I mean salt in a Salt Lake is Salt Lake but it’s going to be a lot different when you’re essentially in like,
Manti for Ephraim or any of these towns and you happen to be the,
the one outlier and then you say I believe in your book but I don’t want to join the church which is the exact opposite of that Enzo book movie you’re the one talking about the tenzo,
write 7.

Devin:
[22:16] Know the Kenzo.

Geoff:
[22:18] The classic church movie which name is on the tip of my tongue I always forget the true story of this Italian,
he was Italian preacher is not Catholic I believe he was Methodist I want to say he went to the states for a while and when he was there he found a book that had no cover which was a copy of the Book of Mormon,
and you read the whole thing eventually went back to Italy with discipline you know he was disbarred from is clergy and all those sorts of things and took him a long time to realize what the book.
Actually,
was and what it meant and eventually much later in his life he was finally able to get baptized when he found the church like made contact with the random 70 that was based some like an England
I made it all work out this is phenomenal Tale But it’s a story of someone who found the Book of Mormon and that alone carried him all the way to,
to us as opposed to just liking the book but he used it is preaching he didn’t know much about it,
where was probably knew it was true so he was preaching from it at Methodist services and that kind of thing you don’t got them in trouble and I’m totally,
chenza WhatsApp.

Devin:
[23:21] I feel like I am a bad moment cuz I don’t know I don’t know that store.

Geoff:
[23:27] Vincenzo di Francesca how rare a possession that’s what.

Devin:
[23:32] I think that’s a generational thing.

Geoff:
[23:36] Oh come on you’re not that much older than.

Devin:
[23:37] I just missed it. You know cuz I’m a year ahead of you and in Sunday school that’s probably it.

Geoff:
[23:43] It sure yeah yeah yeah that’s it yeah yeah yeah yeah.

Devin:
[23:46] Just barely missed the cutoff for seeing that it’s in there.

Geoff:
[23:50] All right Google.

Devin:
[23:51] I already so I found this pretty fascinating piece in a similar vein this week in there three of these stories I think on our list to chat about but that this one was,
a Woman by the name of Hannah Creek.
That is writing a Blog at the University of Washington I guess it’s just a column for the University of Washington paper that the daily and,
Chi is kind of a free spirit and,
has been really critical of people who just accept their parents Religion she kind of stepped away from her Roots as a Catholic and she’s taking kind of you that everybody should revisit,
why they believe what they believe and so she decided she would visit a bunch of other churches,
and interestingly her first Excursion was a visit to a Mormon church and,
I was really nervous when I suck so that it could be here we go.

[25:06] You know that the the patterns in the Catholic church and monitors are pretty differ,
and I’m not an expert on Catholic tradition but they’re pretty different and,
yes she came away and she said she was nervous she did she felt very much outside of the group when she got there but she introduced yourself to someone who is roughly her age,
who was very kind and then introduced her to some,
single guys introduced her to the bishop some of the other women in the ward and so she really came away feeling like she had a good social experience I think and she also said genuinely I felt good after the service,
she said maybe that’s not a spiritual experience yet but pay.

[25:54] And she then said the bishop said he would mail her a copy of the Book of Mormon Angie said,
these people were game show host level happy that I envied them I wanted to feel something wanted to feel about something the way they felt about God,
and each other how would that be great if everybody who visit their Awards
felt like we were all game show host level happy I don’t always leave church feeling that way sometimes I do but I don’t always.

Geoff:
[26:40] I want to know for a for a listener to have young kids like I do cuz the hardest thing for me to Church’s one like going to corralling them through sacrament meeting and making that,
work okay and then not wanting to have them disturb anybody else but then after that it’s time to linger and do the usual
chatting and fellowshipping it’s kind of like one of us takes one kid the nursery and I took the other kid to the bathroom to take me to primary or whatever and then we just go to class so.
I struggled more in that area because I just feel like I don’t have the time post sacrament meeting to do some of the usual visiting and it’s not like that’s the only place and and time,
to do that but,
but for me that’s been a struggle I feel much more insular of late like it we’re just kind of there where are little pod we’re getting it done we take care of the things and of course we can dump the kids off when you can socialize a little bit more someone actually now that I mention this we’re in Sunday school this past week,
my wife used to be the Young Women’s Presidency until recently and her old president was behind us and tap and she was like you guys look bored without the kids.
The during Sunday school I just kind of made us laugh like a date,
social.

Devin:
[27:56] And I’m sure you’re doing fine you’re doing great.

Geoff:
[27:59] I don’t know I could do better one funny thing to think about this wasn’t Seattle which is my favorite city in the country basically,
but Seattle is a notoriously difficult place to break into new social groups have done studies on this that Seattle residents or just they take the longest to warm up two newbies,
are Bluff Latter-day Saints,
break the mold a bit so imagine how much more the Mormon stand out for their friendliness and being inviting some more like Seattle where it’s already a little bit just a little bit harder to kind of break.
I’m going to church in Seattle in the members are very very nice I was in we went to there’s one in the Ballard neighborhood I wonder if she went there I don’t know,
anywhere like hot like the bishop was a graphic designer and have to work for Amazon so who knows it was totally different very weird vibe also she needs to fix her headline it says visiting the Church of Jesus cursed.
Of Latter Day Saints I don’t ask a lot of you Hannah Krieg.

Devin:
[29:02] Better.

Geoff:
[29:03] I do ask that you and that’s not even exclusive to my turn I could also get her case and tell her to you know lowercase the D and day,
no I’m going to worry more about the whole.

Devin:
[29:13] Yeah you’re right that she’s wrong but that’s only because the church is wrong and its uses a lowercase D.

Geoff:
[29:25] Let’s talk about this why is that the case.

Devin:
[29:28] Yeah it just did the convention is capital T.

Geoff:
[29:33] It would be but wouldn’t it be because if it’s a I don’t know,
I read once why they did it because I mean if the – I get because the – makes it a compound adjectives because you there’s no such thing as a day Saints,
so you have to hyphenate it,
rabbit makes sense but now cuz because other churches don’t lower case study of of the Latter-Day Saint offshoots correct there are some that keep it uppercase and there’s some that don’t have a hyphen so why why do we do it.

Devin:
[30:03] Yeah I don’t know I don’t know and it doesn’t matter in my mind why we do it this way is certainly the churches allowed to to do whatever it wants and it’s,
but yeah grammatically you would conventionally capitalize the second word in a hyphenated connection.

Geoff:
[30:26] I mean I’m looking this up on Wikipedia which funny enough the article we just talked about made a little bit of a joke that said,
the author said that she only knew much about the church and seeing the Book of Mormon from what she claimed that she said I imagine that that musical is the Mormons as Wikipedia is to act.

Devin:
[30:40] Yes it’s right straight line.

Geoff:
[30:42] So that was kind of funny now okay I’m going to be a little paragraph for your adoption of the current name since we’re on topic.
If you’ll indulge me so quote in the lake
1830 Smith founded a new headquarters Joseph Smith in Far West Missouri at far west on April 26th 1838
Smith recorded a revelation from God rename the organization the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints Latter day two words no – uppercase,
the church was known by this name until after Smith’s death in 1844 occasionally the name would be written with a hyphen between the word ladder index after Smith’s death
Latter-Day competing Latter Day Saint denominations organized under the leadership of a number of successors the largest of these was of course that by Brigham Young And it continued using the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,
separate words uppercase until incorporation in 1851 by the legislature of the provisional state of Deseret when the church standardized the spelling of its name as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter – Day Saints,
with a hyphenated Latter-Day and a British style lowercase.

Devin:
[31:47] Yes that makes sense.

Geoff:
[31:49] So I think so is that just for fun that was just for funsies that I.

Devin:
[31:53] It will do I think.
Even today right British Invasion and US grammar is a little bit different and I run into that all the time as a writer I’ll see people using British conventions in the biggest one that really annoys me
that it’s different cuz I really wish we would use the same is whether or not. Goes inside the quotes or outside Brits say he goes outside American convention is inside
I think they follow the British Convention as the u.s. convention is capital T.

Geoff:
[32:29] So I wonder I would it make sense I would love for some of those well-versed in church history,
call Freeman greater insights in that like why do we opt for the British,
version of that when we are in American founded church as far as I know we don’t adopt like you said British terminology and other things that we do it’s not like our website for the church is written in British English at the local.

Devin:
[32:54] In 1851 the website was not in British English.

Geoff:
[32:59] Absolutely true it also did not.

[33:04] But that’s compelling so why just got why why are lowered what’s the reference here are the references law in the turn anyways this is going to be my rabbit hole this is going.

Devin:
[33:14] Okay good enjoy your trip down that rabbit hole.

Geoff:
[33:19] Thank you or I keep talking about things people care about.

Devin:
[33:20] Okay evidence of the meat while you travel down that we keep the 3rd,
this week’s non-mormons takes on Mormons with the article I found of let’s see what’s his name at its woman Emily Newman.
Went to the Hill Cumorah Pageant she describes herself as a human and she’s riding for a publication called the humanist which quite frankly I had never before read
and she went to the Hill Cumorah Pageant to see what you would think of it and I think it’s,
Affair to say she didn’t love it but her prettier critiques were soft and her,
a lot of what she said was very kind about how nice people were and how they,
everyone in the cast visited with the gas hurt her highest praise was for the people who.

[34:28] Organized the parking because they made sure that all the people who are headed north parked on one side and all the people headed south on the other side so everyone could leave,
more efficiently she was very impressed by that strategy she didn’t think much of the plot,
have the Hill Cumorah Pageant and I get that you know for those of us of the faith it’s so moving so emotional all these stories just that they speak to us,
and we don’t need to see hear or understand the whole story for it to resonate,
we just need highlights to take us through all these places and events in to see it through the back tit out is moving,
but I can see how if you’re not familiar with the Book of Mormon this is kind of moving around all these different guys,
anyway but to her pray that you know generally she had a very good experience was impressed by the sets and pressed by the The Whiting the scale of the whole pageant,
Southwood way it was interesting I’ve seen the pageant a couple of times myself and so I recognized all of that her observations.

Geoff:
[35:45] I’ve got to go I think Kurt and I talked about this a little bit last week be I need to go to the pageant it’s got one more year.

Devin:
[35:50] Yeah yeah it’s it’s worth going I’m sure there will be a lot of people like you that say Okay pack up and go to Upstate New York one.

Geoff:
[35:57] And that’s what I’m worried about next year will be crazy I just want to have a peaceful casual time going there and I’ll probably be Bonkers I mean they’re the the one hotel in Palmyra is going to sell out or get stuck staying in Rochester.

Devin:
[36:10] Harry horrible.

Geoff:
[36:11] You been to run Trot Rochester has given us exactly one good thing.

Devin:
[36:15] What’s that.

Geoff:
[36:17] Wegmans that’s the one that’s it.

Devin:
[36:18] Wegmans Wegmans is a great grocery store.

Geoff:
[36:23] Wegmans Wegmans is the best people in Utah say no Harmons is the best friend no no Wegmans.

Devin:
[36:29] Harmon’s wishes it could be Wegmans.

Geoff:
[36:32] Wegmans is the greatest grocery store in the world I’ve never seen anything like it incredible.

Devin:
[36:36] I agree agree.

Geoff:
[36:37] Alrighty oh by the way I found a little bit of extra information according to the exmormon Reddit so take that for what you will
but they argue these strangite Church of James Strang from way back when actually owned the trademark to Latter-day two words uppercase.
And so when we were Incorporated under Utah Charter we could not use it,
and then eventually they sold they might have sold some of that to the Hendrick Heights which if they’re the ones that by the way if you go to,
if you remember our URL is wasn’t it if you go to the we talked about this cuz you know how we’re no longer lds.org Church of Jesus Christ,
. org but I believe if you go to the Church of Jesus Christ. Organ takes you to the old like Hendrick Heights website
anyway the point is this might be an IP battle and basically other people owned it and who knows if the church ever will sorry to get back on this but he’s the kind of things I.

Devin:
[37:40] Yes and I’m so glad you did,
our listeners are richer for it every one of them is going to talk about this on Sunday in priesthood Relief Society this week I guarantee it.

Geoff:
[37:58] I’m pretty sure they’ve already tuned out so since they’re not here,
let’s talk about some of the things d a groundbreaking for Brazil’s 11th Temple we’ll see how it shakes out in terms of dedication sequence but the belem Brazil Temple Bellamy’s up on the Atlantic coast near the mouth of the Amazon,
it’s well did you did you turn Mission Brazil.

Devin:
[38:18] I did not but I have been to Berlin,
and it is it’s a fairly low income Community this is not a big prosperous City like Rio or Sao Paulo those have poor neighborhoods don’t get me wrong but those are big,
rich cities at Belen is not,
so this will Rudy be I think a meaningful and Mark and quite a symbol of,
the church is presents in the community so that’s exciting.

Geoff:
[38:48] Yeah so it’s going to happen on a Saturday August 17th so less than two weeks from now don’t break ground on the table its design is going to typical Anonymous contemporary that we doing a lot of our building that’s what that’s what I call that style.

Devin:
[39:03] As small as it is it will be you know that it’s like any other City there are some skyscrapers downtown but I’m sure this will be somewhere,
more to the outskirts if we follow our patterns and.

Geoff:
[39:18] Probably I could probably go to Church of Jesus Christ temples real quick and find the exact location since you’ve been there I will give you the.

Devin:
[39:25] Yeah well I probably can’t make heads nor tails of that based on my two days in Belen but.

Geoff:
[39:33] Oh shush you.
Well I can tell you right now it’s off by some some big streets near the ocean.
Yeah well I can see where it is on a map.

Devin:
[39:48] Are you go.

Geoff:
[39:49] What’s on Avenida Avenida Avenida centenario Santa. He sure whatever they.

Devin:
[39:54] Yeah whatever they say.

Geoff:
[39:55] Brazilian Portuguese good news for Brazil man that keep doing stuff another quick mention I’m just going to throw out there,
our own Jeff Borders published a quick rundown of some come follow me resources that can make your personal study better so simply put he want to do around of us some YouTube channels podcasts
things like that that follow the come follow me manual Lincoln just give you more information very similar to what we used to do here with Sunday school Bonanza for,
long time fans I want me to spend about 15 minutes reviewing a gospel Doctrine lesson because nobody ever read those manual they handed out you know at the beginning of the year of the student manuals
and we did that for many many years and we don’t do it anymore cuz I don’t have the time,
so now you have these and use them as just go I’m not going to even plug them on here except just going to follow the link with this episode of this week in Mormons. Calm and you will find out.

Devin:
[40:49] I want to share what for me Brit is the my favorite story of the week.
And at this is a little thing I came across about horses in the Americas now I think most people are aware that the Book of Mormon talks about horses.

Geoff:
[41:13] Which are tapers as we all know.

Devin:
[41:14] Well that’s one of the explanations that people have used for what what did Joseph Smith mean by the word horse,
and so some people have argued that it’s other animals that were used in a horse like manner but a lot of anthropologists excuse me a paleontologist has said.
Or other people who dig stuff out of the dirt I don’t know archaeologist who are the people that dig out horse Bones from 2,000 years ago I don’t know who those people are but the people who do that.
Who did course bones out of the dirt that have argued for the last century or so that there were no horses.

[42:02] In the Americas.
During Book of Mormon periods and therefore the Book of Mormon is incorrect and.
Some of my skeptical friends I think will be interested to note that there is new research that will resonate more I think with a lot of my.

[42:28] Lefty skeptical friends on this though they will probably be skeptical of this themselves,
a Native American Woman by the name of Yvette running horse,
Yvette running horse Collins published her PhD dissertation,
and she is a obviously Native American in her dissertation,
collected art fossils and bones and Tammy most importantly oral histories,
from all of the Native American tribes she could find and and the universal consensus of all the tribes was,
we had horses
the Spanish did not bring horses we had and that is really an interesting
thing until they found has some artwork that seems to portray
distinctly horses she found as some other old things and of course these these oral histories it’s so it’s an interesting new,
aspect to the research on horses in America which has particular salience to Latter-day Saint to,
you know sometimes feel like her Book of Mormon is sometimes criticized for its.

[43:56] How are they call those anyway what some people would call mistakes right.

Geoff:
[44:02] Yeah yeah and like you said an interesting thing to remember is Joseph Smith I’m paraphrasing but said essentially that,
the scriptures like specially the Doctrine and Covenants but scriptures in general into the revelations he received,
were you being channeled through his verbiage,
right and that’s especially pertinent Doctrine and Covenants where is essentially him interpreting the will of the Lord and putting it into his language right so this was not the Lord necessarily dictating,
verbatim the words that’s a really crucial qualifier and I can see the same thing happening with Book of Mormon translation he saw things and felt inspiration about thing
and use the best terminology that made sense at the time or it also like used to said might have actually just straight-up been horses actual horses which is,
which is fine this article makes a point to say that you know they found evidence of horses and their drawings artifacts and various things that they were pre-columbian and that are,
also in areas where the Spanish never colonized.
The Spanish word to a brought horses over how does explain like the images of horses and what is now in Alaska or the Yukon or something like that where we’re spending never got to sow,
this is a this is a pretty interesting article you stumbled upon out of how you found this one but this is the fun.

Devin:
[45:25] Oh I have my ways I have my ways.

Geoff:
[45:28] Do sassy man.

Devin:
[45:30] So yeah.

Geoff:
[45:34] Furniture all right let’s get some quick ones knocked out here let’s talk about the 30-day bae.

Devin:
[45:41] Oh my gosh.

Geoff:
[45:43] Which is the worst thing to happen unless the Washington Post is going to pay wall me in which case Devin will be telling you.

Devin:
[45:49] Yeah the 30-day Bae that’s not realize that was a post story it’s all about Salt Lake City and and Utah and they’re crazy,
you know okay I better not be the one that describes this cuz it’s,
let me just say it strikes me is you know junior high but okay.

Geoff:
[46:16] It seems that basically they are I’m trying to get it on to watch.

Devin:
[46:20] So what they do is they do they make people couples that are couples using some traditional ways and then make them go on dates for a month,
as part of this pairing process and they put it on a show I guess it’s a YouTube show,
and you’re the first season,
I think there were three couples none of them got together one lasted for three months that one didn’t make it through the 30 days they made it for a week,
so anyway.
I should probably be more fond of these things I should be more romantic I’m a hopeless romantic I should love this stuff I don’t but I should I think the saddest things to happen to film in the last decade is that no one makes good,
romantic comedies anymore cuz I think that’s the only good and true
form of Egyptian ra of film and tried to watch Notting Hill for the 34th time this weekend.
They just don’t make enough Notting Hill yes or no hopeless romantic mood for some reason this this dating Salinas does not resonate with me at all.

Geoff:
[47:43] Well we can’t all be in a late 90s Hugh Grant and just sort of be in a bumbling over our words and Ino fatfish Charming wax.
Knowing it was a good show let me ask you this totally only related to that the what do you think was the last good romantic.

Devin:
[47:59] Thankfully thankfully there was one this year and it’s been a couple of years since there was one I really like but this one is what is the what was it called.
Why don’t you come back to that we’ll all remember and I’ll come back to you and tell you about it.
Crazy Rich Asians was good. Did not was not the one I was thinking of there was one this year that parody.

Geoff:
[48:29] Hitch.

Devin:
[48:33] Romantic comedies but was a romantic comedy and I thought it was hysterical and romantic.

Geoff:
[48:42] I don’t I don’t know what movies.

Devin:
[48:46] I will figure it out.

Geoff:
[48:49] Well I will let you ponder that just as I pondered the.

Devin:
[48:51] Thank you yeah yeah.

Geoff:
[48:52] Can come back to us over it’s over it’s flunking sainthood we have a guest post by met Harrison an article entitled how to be a Mormon in just seventy three easy steps so bear with me now is everyone step permanent and.
I’m not going to go through all of these the first one she leaves off on of course is to say never use the word Mormon in describing anything Mormon doing so is a win for Satan now that’s fine,
but my main issue is in a lot of the less enthusiastic Latter-Day Saint crowd,
the whole victory for Satan is of is one of the first things that go to to sort of make fun of President Nelson’s,
Council to demonize ourselves so okay fine but I feel like kind of sets up,
herself as it as what kind of author she is out to get go anyway jokes about eating meat sparingly because of course the word of wisdom we’ve focused primarily on not having coffee to your alcohol and very little on actually eating grains and meats pairing weekend,
pick out and get our sugar and.

Devin:
[49:57] Is a vegan diet chart of emphasize with her mockery there.

Geoff:
[50:03] Never use a curse word if you need a library phos where options watch Napolean Dynamite multiple times and absorbance vocabulary I feel like she could have also.

Devin:
[50:09] I have visited the house have you visited the Napoleon Hill House or Napoleon Dynamite.

Geoff:
[50:14] You know I can’t lie to you buddy going up to Preston Idaho is not usually high on my list of bit more so after I read educated finally.

Devin:
[50:22] Yes I read it. I hope you enjoy it as much as I do.

Geoff:
[50:26] It was a great was a great books I wasn’t Tara westover’s Connor from that.

Devin:
[50:29] I visited both places on the same trip visited.

Geoff:
[50:35] You want to what is that is that Clifton Idaho is.

Devin:
[50:37] And I think you’re right so I went up there I was a little nervous actually made a little video of the family compound and business there but I was in the rental car driving by real slow and then took off because I was afraid that they would,
no one is crazy brothers would come after me and beat me up or something.
But yeah I mean I have a big facility now big business but a lot of the things she described you can see any kind of the junkyard is still there,
anyway fascinating story.

Geoff:
[51:11] The whole thing.
Anyway it’s a whole list you’re supposed to be a joke says do not not not have sex before marriage which I give me like it’s kind of a joke but like yeah we are like actually aiming for that,
so I don’t know if she’s trying to say it’s okay to have sex joke joke have a favorite Church him watch out for gadianton robbers also multi-level marketing schemes which I think would be how to be a Mormon would be to actually embrace,
multi-level marketing scheme.
Turn regularly to sugar in huge quantities as your only Vice driving Church no matter how close you live that was actually pretty funny but that’s a very Utah one but I don’t know what it’s like for those who live,
houses up from a meeting house and they still bother to drive,
for some reason and she breaks it down into gender things that gender should be doing don’t have porn shoulders ladies don’t be shrill so Pioneer bonnets
don’t chew gum in church one piercing per ear for the men only wear white shirts when doing the sacrament,
do not shed tears except during testimony meeting.
Do not play church bell enough to get injured facial hair was fine for Jesus but not for you that’s what she writes that is.

Devin:
[52:31] Yes I think most of that is not word.

Geoff:
[52:35] Sorry I thought I saw the first comment on the comment said what a relentlessly unpleasant and tedious chore it has become to ReDiscover.

Devin:
[52:44] There we go.

Geoff:
[52:49] So if you can read that if you want folks anything else you want to you want to do.

Devin:
[52:54] No that looks like just a little bit about that it’s not that interesting but there was an interesting decision made by the church cording to the Tribune that there has been a a dude,
an attorney what’s his name I want to get that right here mark naugle.
An attorney has been running a website called quitmormon. Com,
that streamlines the process for leaving the church just a little bit and it’s for people who don’t want to have to confront their Bishop,
and I get that I know a lot of people that won’t sympathize with that but let you know if you make that hard decision,
going and sitting down with your Bishop for your stake president kind of arguing through that would be painful and I know the church and good good,
good faith wants that to happen because they want Bishops to be able to help address concerns and keep people in the face.

[53:56] But as Mark naugle has been,
kind of his work out a process that eliminated the need for a notary on your letter asking for a resignation and the premise of that,
skip to step if you used his website was that he was validating for identity but the church received,
some fraudulent.

[54:27] I request they said many fraudulent requests they didn’t elaborate on many it but included one for by Thomas S Monson,
and so they said we we’re not going to put up with the Salinas anymore,
your submissions must come with the notary signature just like everyone else’s so if you want to leave the church I hope no one listening does that no judgment if that’s the case,
if you want to leave the church without your Bishop you there is no way to do it apart from writing a letter asking to have your name removed,
you can send that a via email so apparently a digital copy of the notarized letter is okay,
that you can eat have to send that to the church and you can submit it through quitmormon. Com but you still need the notary so that’s interesting.

[55:26] I do find I am saddened by people wanting to leave the church.

[55:34] But I also kind of understand why some have a nice day so I really don’t want to,
express any more judgment than I feel they already feel this week and in church our Sunday school teacher went off on wishy-washy morbid,
and hurt the implication of of her tirade wasn’t I right the implication of her comment was that we all have to be Stallard we all must be and if we’re not,
we’re failing in the gospel and I just thought I can’t imagine a more insulting comment,
to everyone in that room that heard that comment who is anything less than 100% Star Wars,
and I am eight eyes painting Temple attending church going Mormon and it stung me.

[56:34] And I just thought that there must be in that room at least half half the group must have more questions doubts and issues than I had and I was stung,
who’s that man that just you know what that’s just not the way we should be treating people who have doubts and questions and certainly we need to I mean.
We all know we are supposed to love Catholics we all know we’re supposed to love our friends of no face,
And yet when people leave the church there or even doubt or question the church we so often still treat them as the lowest form of humans and we got to get away from it so I got it out of my system.

Geoff:
[57:19] No I mean I agree I could say it doesn’t help anyone who’s on the fence,
want to try harder when you just I’m going to get if you try to motivate people like hey you know don’t don’t doubt like go all in on this and see what God has done and then see how it goes let that sphere Council,
yeah but it doesn’t help people if we just killed them so I’m with you 1%
hey it’s interesting to me the church has gotten involved in this cuz the number about a month or so ago of the vertex I Trent a whole article about the business behind leaving Mormonism
prominently featured quitmormon that was the whole thing behind it and some of the issues I don’t I don’t know,
how many people are leaving the church regularly read The Verge it’s a prominent website but I found it interesting that now that church has responded sort of within a month of that piece running.

Devin:
[58:09] Now interesting they may have gotten a surge after that extra attention.

Geoff:
[58:15] Yeah they may and I’m with you I don’t want anybody to leave the church but I also agree that I think something we make it a we make it a complicated process for people who do wish to have their.

Devin:
[58:28] I think great motivation for that is good,
it is not it is not to be mean it’s not to be cruel it’s so that we can have that last process of saying we love you and we want you to stay.

Geoff:
[58:44] Exactly what folks,
that’s going to do it for us this week once again please subscribe to the showing leave a review on iTunes in particular if you haven’t done so that would mean the world to us and help us out rank all of the various inferior podcasts that also exist,
for some reason,
but you know here we are on our 10th season just crushing it but please do that seriously be really great and follow us on Facebook Instagram Twitter all that good stuff Devin of course you can find at your mark on the world with Devin Thorpe making things happen,
and he’s he’s always doing good work I find Evan to be one of the most positive and thoughtful people I come across so it’s always a pleasure to have him here in between studio with us so I thank you again good sir.

Devin:
[59:31] Set Geoff thank you very much it’s an honor and honour and a privilege that you are a scholar and a gentleman.

Geoff:
[59:38] I am not a scholar because I reference Wikipedia.
As we all know it’s everybody we hope you have a great week thanks for taking the time to listen to Twin be well be holy and be happy.