Not to in any way diminish the difficulties that women sometimes have with garments but I find it interesting that i haven't heard any men mention issues. I have trouble with garment sleeves and tshirts and shorts being long enough in the summer time. As someone who works in a very casual environment in my studio it can be frustrating to be constantly adjusting clothing.

How about tank tops for men?

Also do you positionally shift the audio? Geoff seems like he's a bit to the left and Al to the right…i only notice because i feel deaf in my left ear when Al does a lot of talking.

I saw this and immediately thought of Geoff because he always gets so upset when people misuse apostrophes.

I had a pretty bad experience being homeschooled for a couple years. In spite of that, I think there's some very good arguments that the very best education can be obtained through "hack-schooling" or "unschooling" which are some very cool movements that are trying to get away from the stigma attached to "homeschooling," partially by taking a very different approach than traditional homeschooling.

The only other thing I'd say is miracles are real. Hopefully you have people in your life you can trust that are willing to share experiences with you, where you can trust in them while you wait for manifestations of your own, but they come man. And in my experience, they come in much more intimate / real scenarios than we are comfortable giving them credit for.

Probably not helpful to your questions / thoughts, but having had these exact discussions multiple times over the years, thought I'd toss in my 2c

-Al

But you make good points, and I think that these are all very personal experiences and interpretations that will vary wildly and are quite subjective.

Due respect, but equating the complexities of sustainable and intelligent life to a puddle isn't really the best analogy. A puddle happened because something made a hole and then it rained. Yippee. That doesn't take much more than simple impact and precipitation in some way. I like to think that humans are just a teensy bit more complex.

Why can't amazing and miraculous be one and the same? I'll concede that modern marvels in technology are perhaps more amazing than they are miraculous, but I believe that the miracle of human ingenuity and complex thought are vital in creating such amazing things.

It does depend on how you see things, which I hope I made clear in the episode. I gave a talk on Sunday where I spoke on a struggle I had with employment. In many ways, the result was unforeseeable and a miracle, but that is my own interpretation. I admit I haven't seen these crazy manifestations or seen terminal diseases leave people seemingly instantaneously, for example. But I have certainly experience what I regard as miracles.

Tell me – and I asked this on the show – what are the types of miracles that are sought by people in your situation? What is it that defines "miracle" for you and would satisfy your search? I'm not asking to shut you down. I'm asking to understand.

-Geoff

-Geoff

To me, there is a huge difference between amazing and miraculous. The complexities of the human body, while amazing and beautiful, are no longer miraculous to me due to the science done by modern evolutionary biologists. If the divine miracles that evidence a God are anything that is amazing or anything that one doesn't understand, then as our understanding of the world increases though science, the evidences for God seem to decrease. I tend to think that the best evidences for God come from within. However, is also important to understand that internal evidences while meaningful, still have epistemological limitations.

In the 1998 edition of the Church Handbook of Instructions, the LDS Church clarified that a woman may also be sealed to more than one man. A woman, however, may not be sealed to more than one man at a time while she is alive. She may only be sealed to subsequent partners after she has died.[5]

Felicity, I'm not sure what rights men would lose with female ordination. Those who are authorized to hold the priesthood has changed throughout the ancient and modern church without disenfranchising the previously authorized group. Did white males lose any of their rights when the priesthood was extended to black men? Of course not, the blessings of priesthood service are neither finite nor limited. The gift of motherhood is indeed precious, as is the gift of fatherhood (the male equivalent) – I don't think anyone suggests that anyone make parenthood less of a priority in this discussion.

Indeed, one miracle at a time. And I'm jazzed about women praying in Conference.

-Geoff

Imagine if we had a New World Translation of the Book of Mormon and D&C!

I have a hard time with stuff like Sis Brook's post, because it seems to ignore things like the excellent presentation by Joshua Johanson: http://www.fairlds.org/fair-conferences/2012-fair… wherein he says that labeling people as "gay" ignores a lot of complexity and assumes a lot. She seems intent that they are "gay" and that is all. If it hadn't been for the likes of Bro. Johanson, I'd of assumed her approach was correct. But he really changed my perspective. And I think he has more insight into the issue, than she.

The White Horse Prophecy and Joseph Smith's teachings about the Constitution being in danger and being save by the Church are actually different things. The former is likely an embellishment created after the Prophet's death, has questionable provenance and has, for the most part, been rejected as not authoritative by the Church. It is relatively clear however that Joseph Smith did teach that the US Constitution would be in danger and would be saved by the LDS people.

The statement below is what is accepted by many as authentic and has been reiterated by a number of modern Prophets:

"Even this nation will be on the very verge of crumbling to pieces and tumbling to the ground, and when the Constitution is upon the brink of ruin, this people will be the staff upon which the nation shall lean, and they shall bear the Constitution away from the very verge of destruction."

(Source: Joseph Smith Collection, LDS Church Historical Department. Joseph Smith on July 19, 1840.)

Defenders make the mistake of claiming this idea has no Prophetic basis in Mormonism because they can dismiss the White Horse Prophecy. This is a mistake.

More examples of other LDS leaders teaching this can be found here: http://www.latterdayconservative.com/faq/the-cons…

Also I'd dispute your contention that the LDS Church does not have an apocalyptic world view— in that it has a 19th century 2nd great awakening origin and maintains a number of millennialist holdover doctrines and teachings. Granted it's less end of times than when I was growing up in the 70 ad 80s— but when push comes to shove LDS still talk about returning to Missouri, the second coming and the wickedness of the world. I think much of the gnashing of teeth over Romney's loss was fueled by this sort of view. Many LDS saw the 2012 election as a sign of the times.

There's Arise, the 2012 mutual theme song in all it's glory

Al

It also used to be the stake center until late 90's

also regarding Risk…couldn't sleep last night (it didnt take too long)
http://i.imgur.com/6oILc.png

Well, congrats, but also… does this mean the end of TWiM is near? Come on, we all know how things go with our married friends disappearing.

Al

-Al

Also, ditto what Jen said.

And thanks. Hope you'll join us regularly.

-Geoff

Great show guys! Very informative and entertaining.

I think that the Church is completely correct when they say that they love, cherish, and appreciate women. That, however, does not mean that women in the Church are not subordinate to men at the family, local, and institutional level. Although, I must say that many men in the Church try their very best to promote equality in the family and in ward counsels despite the ingrained structural subordination of women.

At least for me, the big question is not “Are women subordinate to men within the Church?” because the answer is so obviously yes (although this was not always so obvious to me). The big question for me is “Is the subordination of women in the Church due to God’s will or is it due to ingrained traditions that were codified back in a time when women were more explicitly second class citizens?”.

• Women are unable to be General Authorities
• Women cannot be Ward Mission leaders
• Women cannot be in the Sunday School Presidency
• Women cannot perform ordinances
• Women do not preside in the home (Preside derives from president. Presidents have executive authority, which means that women do not have equal authority in the home as the man. I know we like to say that men and women are equal partners, but as long as we are using the P-word, by definition of the word, equality does not exist.)
• Women who teach seminary full time are fired when they have children (see http://www.the-exponent.com/lds-church-educationa…
• Women covenant to harken to their husbands as their husband harkens to the Lord in the temple. Men only covenant to harken to the Lord.

Can equality in the Church exist if the institutional hierarchical framework always subordinates women to men? Is someone a second class member of the Church if their gender disqualifies them from policy making authority?

• Women have zero authority in policy making decisions at both the local level (Bishops, Stake Presidents, and Mission Presidents have the final say) and at the institutional level (General Authorities have the final say). The priesthood may seek counsel from women who are Relief Society and Young Women’s leaders, but the final decision is always with the man.
• Women do not pray in General Conference
• Women do not have any leadership positions in which they preside over men (except when they are in the primary)